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Your Thoughts: The Muppets Character Encyclopedia

Discussion in 'Muppet Merchandise' started by Phillip, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    At first I thought he confirmed it as being owned by Disney.

    He said the line as "they are, and were - the king, Taminella, Featherstone - on the list I sent to Disney". I wonder if he meant to say the line as "they are, and were - the king, Taminella, Featherstone - on the list I sent to, Disney". If Henson does own them (and there's not much Henson would own with those characters), then I wonder how they could have been on the original list (especially since Shemin said that he looked at a list of characters Disney has the rights to). And he said that Disney only didn't allow them because they're from productions not currently in circulation (what about YouTube?) and didn't think they're relevent to the books audience.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  2. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    In the interview I thought Craig Shemin said that they didn't want to do character pages comprised only by screenshots if they didn't have to, but then I've been rereading, and he says they didn't want to include screenshots unless they had to (not just if that's all they could do). But almost every character page has at least one screen shot (unless I'm mistaking stills for specialty-shot photos of certain scenes, which they seemed to do for almost every Muppet Show scene). Even a lot of the main characters have at least one screenshot photo used. The Kermit page has an image from the "Rainbow Connection" performance in The Muppets (though I can't tell whether that's a screenshot or a specialty-shot photo... I'm guessing all screenshots from The Muppets and Muppets Most Wanted are of really high quality).

    Craig Shemin mentioned that if there's an odd two-page spread, it's because they had to drop a character that was going to be included on that spread. I'm guessing he's referring to the almost-blank pages next to Emily Bear, Gonzo, Penguins, and Walter (they're not really empty, most are an image of the character or related character and a small text box.... though with some, especially Gonzo, they could have put in more pictures and info). I've been thinking about who could have been next to those, and I'm guessing those spreads were going to include '80s Robot (Shemin said that they did work on an '80s Robot pahe), The Gogolala Jubilee Jugband (though they should have been on the opposite side of where the Gonzo page was), and Waldo C. Graphic (ditto). But the spread with the penguins has a big, sort-of unrelated picture of Miss Piggy from the Muppets Most Wanted opening number... the character before Penguins is Paul Revere, the character after is Pepe... and alphabetically, I can't really figure out what character might have been dropped. I checked the "The Muppets Characters" category at Muppet Wiki, and the only characters there are characters who I wouldn't expect to be in this book (the pencils from Sex and Violence - this book doesn't have any characters exclusive to the pilots, and somebody else I can't currently remember).
  3. Duke Remington

    Duke Remington Well-Known Member

    I don't think so. More likely, he's referring to the two-page spreads of Kermit saying "Time's fun when you're having flies" and Animal saying "Eat drums!". In place of those two spreads, they could've included characters such as:

    -Droop (ToughPigs should've asked Shemin why they were okay with the book having both Muppy and Rufus, two similar-looking characters, but not okay with Droop and Nigel the Director both being in the book--a bit of a double standard)

    -Big V (again, if they're okay with both Muppy and Rufus being in the book, why not, despite Big V bearing similarities to Gorgon Heap)

    -Trumpet Girl

    -King Goshposh (with Featherstone being on the same page, similar to how Carter was placed on Howard Tubman's page)

    -Taminella Grinderfall

    -All 4 of the the Travelling Musicians (Leroy, T.R., Rover Joe & Catgut) together on one page (maybe with a brief mention of Mordecai Sledge, Lardpork, Mean Floyd & Caleb Siles, again, in a manner similar to Carter on Howard Tubman's page). Plus, T.R., Rover Joe and Catgut made appearances on The Muppet Show anyway.

    I know what Shemin said about the inclusion of the Tales from Muppetland characters, but I'm just saying...

    I also think that ToughPigs should've asked Shemin why Jacques Roach and Anthony & Fern made it into the book, even though they were mostly trying to steer clear of the Jim Henson Hour characters. Though you could argue that Jacques appeared in Muppet Treasure Island, but Anthony & Fern made no further appearances outside JHH.

    Let's really hope that they'll get to do a second edition of the book in the very near future to include some of these missing characters (though I can still see them excluding most of the characters that originated in The Jim Henson Hour, The Muppets Take Manhattan, Muppets From Space, Kermit's Swamp Years and It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie, as well as characters based on real people like The Country Trio, Spamela Hamderson, David Hogselhoff and the Elvises).
  4. Duke Remington

    Duke Remington Well-Known Member

    Maybe ToughPigs should've mentioned the specials being in circulation on YouTube when asking Shemin.
  5. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    The Jacques Roach page does have an image from Muppet Treasure Island. It's interesting that he's the only pirate who wasn't featured in the "roll call" sequence to get a page (yeah, what's up with that? There's a lot more crew members than the ones mentioned by name during roll call, some with dialogue even). I'd be surprised if it's because he was a major character (albeit with a different name) on The Animal Show, since that's owned by Henson (and in fact he's the one character from MuppeTelevision I would have expected to see not included for that very reason).
  6. DutchMuppet

    DutchMuppet Well-Known Member

    I really hope there won't be a second character encyclopedia. I think the remaining characters aren't important enough to keep me interesting in reading the book. Shemin said that the key point of the book is that it's an encyclopedia but you can read it from front to back. A book full of rare Muppets isn't so interesting.
    What I do hope is that Shemin's idea for a second book will take off. If this book is a succes, there's a chance they will do a book about the making of The Muppets. Although I allready got Of Muppets and Men, The Art of the Muppets, Jim Henson: The Works and Imagination Illustrated, another book would be really awesome. Also because those books are hard to find and are a little outdated. I think Shemin called it Muppets: The Ultimate Guide. I hope they will put the money in that project, what would be awesome. And maybe you can have a segment with rare Muppets (allthough he said that a lot of characters they couldn't get the rights for) and on the last page you can read (For more muppets characters look at the other book.) A little promoting isn't that bad :)
  7. Duke Remington

    Duke Remington Well-Known Member

    DutchMuppet, please stop it. :grouchy:
  8. galagr

    galagr Well-Known Member

    What on earth is he doing wrong? He's just expressing his opinion. Heck, if anything, he's right! I would love to see an Ultimate Guide to the Muppets.

    Not to mention, despite the fact that I would like to see a second edition of the encyclopedia, that it would be pretty unnecessary. I really don't think they'll make an entire new encyclopedia just to include the eight or so extremely minor characters they didn't include.
  9. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    I agree, stop being realistic and focus on complaining about a book that included obscure characters, but the not the ones we obviously wanted.
    muppetlover123 and galagr like this.
  10. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    If that "Ultimate Guide" ends up getting made, I doubt it would have many character sections, but I could see it having bigger sections on the main characters, including behind-the-scenes stuff.
  11. DutchMuppet

    DutchMuppet Well-Known Member

    Maybe it's me, but I think the Encyclopedia is great the way it is. Yes some characters aren't in it but to say I miss them. No. It's a book for 10 bucks. That's just really cheap, so I have peace with it. And sorry if I'm realistic. But that's just who I am. I really like the double page photo's from Muppets Most Wanted. So it's not that obviously like you said. DK made a fantastic book for children. In random interviews Shemin gave for almost every character that was left out of the book a good explanation why it's not in the book. I think it's just nitpicking to complain about it. It's a shame but we must "Move right along"! If I must give a grade to this book, it easily earns an A!

    But I really think that if there's gonna be a Part 2 for this book, the chance for an Ultimate Guide are gone. And I really prefer an Ultimate Guide. With info about the puppeteers, how the bicycle scene works, cinegraphy with nice photo's and much more! The books about this subject are outdated and out of print. I think a lot of people would buy the Ultimate Guide. I do hope that the Characters Guide sold really well for this to happen.

    But I had an idea. Maybe it's possible to print your own pages for the book. I had the same problem with a book about a local amusementpark. They had some characters left out because of the rights. When we asked the writer about this book, if he could make the pages with the fancommunity, he was allright with it. So he wrote the rest of the pages. Some fans made the lay-out exactly like the book and posted them online. People could print them at home and put them between the pages. Or just keep them together in a binder or whatsoever. Maybe Craig would do that, because some text are written allready but left out. Just an idea ;)
  12. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    I've been thinking about how I would do the Ultimate Guide if they do end up making a Muppet guide:
    Chapter 1 - Meet the Muppets (sections on Kermit, Miss Piggy, Fozzie, Gonzo, Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem - maybe give Animal his own page in addition, Rowlf, Scooter, Bunsen and Beaker, Statler and Waldorf, Pepe, Rizzo, Sam the Eagle, The Swedish Chef, and maybe a section highlighting notable minor or supporting characters. The first few characters would get multiple pages, while others just one or two.)
    Chapter 2 - Muppets on TV (sections on Sam and Friends, TV appearances - hopefully there'd be plenty of time to clear rights to images from shows Disney doesn't own, though worst case scenario it could just focus on Disney-owned shows the Muppets appeared on, early television specials, The Muppet Show pilots, The Muppet Show, specials from 1979-1986, various commercials, Muppet Babies, Little Muppet Monsters (if not a footnote in the Muppet Babies section), MuppeTelevision, 1987-1990 specials, Muppet Time, Muppets Tonight, Muppet TV, and 2008-2013 specials)
    Chapter 3 - Movies (all of the movies, obviously, including Muppetvision 3D, Kermit's Swamp Years, It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie, and The Muppets' Wizard of Oz).
    Chapter 4 - On the Web (sections on MuppetToons, Statler and Waldorf: From the Balcony, The Muppets Kitchen, Kermit's Party, Muppisode, and the Muppet YouTube videos)
    Chapter 5 - Miscellaneous (live stage shows, unproduced projects, direct-to-video projects, the Ideal Toys, Palisades Toys, Boom Comics, albums, and other notable stuff)
    Chapter 6 - behind-the-scenes (including sections on Jim Henson, Frank Oz, Jerry Juhl, Jerry Nelson, Richard Hunt, Dave Goelz, Steve Whitmire, Kevin Clash, David Rudman, Brian Henson, Bill Barretta, Eric Jacobson, Peter Linz, Matt Vogel, Don Shalin, and Faz Fazakis)

    A characters chapter could be redundant when there's also a character guide, but Craig Shemin said that this kind of book would allow for behind-the-scenes facts. As you can see by what I listed, I would have that chapter limited to the best-known characters (and there can be mini-sections on characters on various production pages or even performer pages). I would have characters like Kermit and Miss Piggy get multiple pages, while "lesser" main characters would just get one or two.

    Hmm, I wonder if I should do like what was done in The Odd Life of Timothy Green: Type up what I would want in a book like this, bury it in a garden, and then see if the book becomes a reality.
    DutchMuppet and Muppet fan 123 like this.
  13. Mad Monty fan

    Mad Monty fan Well-Known Member

    I never read it yet, so i don't know what it's all about.:confused:
  14. DutchMuppet

    DutchMuppet Well-Known Member

    Then buy the book and you'll know!:sympathy:
  15. Mad Monty fan

    Mad Monty fan Well-Known Member

    I just got it at the Augusta Barnes and Noble and already i'm starting to like it. I learned that Sopwith Camel's favorite day of the week is Wednesday(lol who knew?)
    Duke Remington likes this.
  16. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    Something I recently noticed: The entry for Foo-Foo mentions that Foo-Foo has siblings named Oui-Oui, Poo-Poo, Num-Num, Goo-Goo, and Fred. A variant of the name Fred is Freddie, and on The Jim Henson Hour, the Foo-Foo puppet was named Freddie in the Fashion Doll Channel sketches. I wonder if listing Fred among those names was a way of referencing those sketches. It could have listed Freddie, but Fred seems like a funnier name in that context (mentioning several names similar to Foo-Foo's - one babytalk-ish word used on two syllables - and then the more serious-sounding Fred).

    Also, I listed the names in the order they are listed in the book. I wonder if by listing Oui-Oui and Poo-Poo besides each other is meant as a reference to a line from Kermit's Swamp Years, where, after Jack Rabbit tells Goggles that a pets owner will clean up it's poo poo, Goggle says "poo poo?" and Jack answers, "Oui oui, poo poo."

    I would believe either way whether they are subtle references or coincidences.
    dwayne1115 and Muppet fan 123 like this.
  17. charlietheowl

    charlietheowl Well-Known Member

    Just got a copy of this for my birthday, and I have to say it's a fun read. I like the irreverent approach to the characters, especially the obscure ones. I wish they had shot some new pictures for the more commonplace characters, but that's a minor quibble.
    Muppet fan 123 and galagr like this.
  18. Mad Monty fan

    Mad Monty fan Well-Known Member

    If i were to write a book titled Muppets Character Guide, i would include every muppet from a to z:
    Afghan Hound
    Andy and Randy
    Angel Marie
    Agnes Stonewick
    Angus McGonagle
    Annie Sue
    Balloon Head Conductor
    Bean Bunny
    Beautiful Day
    Big Mean Carl
    Big Tiny Tallsaddle
    Bill the Bubble Guy
    Black Dog
    Blind Pew
    Bobby Benson's Baby Band
    Boober Fraggle
    Bunsen Honeydew
    Butch the Tiger
    Clueless Morgan
    Contender 980116
    Crazy Harry
    Dr. Julius Strangepork
    Dr. Phil van Neuter
    Dr. Teeth
    Emily Bear
    Eric the Parrot
    Flower Eating Monster
    Flying Zucchini Brothers
    Forcryingoutloud Bird
    George the Janitor
    Geri and The Atrics
    Gladys the Cafeteria Lady
    Gobo Fraggle
    Gorgon Heap
    Howard Tubman
    Inspector LaBrea
    Jaqcues Roach
    Johnny Fiama
    J.P. Grosse
    King Ploobis
    Lenny the Lizard
    Lew Zealand
    Link Hothgrob
    Louis Kazagger
    Lubbock Lou's Jughuggers
    Luncheon Counter Monster
    Lydia the Pig
    Mad Monty
    Mahna Mahna and The Snowths
    Marvin Suggs and his Muppaphone
    Mary Louise
    Mean Mama
    Mighty Favog
    Mildred Huxtetter
    Miss Mousey
    Miss Piggy
    Miss Poogy
    Mokey Fraggle
    Nate Leakey
    Ohboy Bird
    Ohreally Bird
    Old Joe
    Old Tom, Dead Tom, Real Old Tom
    Paul Revere
    Pepe the King Prawn
    Mr. Poodlepants
    Polly Lobster
    Punch and Judy Puppets
    Queen Pueta
    Righton Bird
    Red Fraggle
    Rover Joe
    Sal Minella
    Sam Eagle
    Shakey Sanchez
    Slim Wilson
    Sopwith Camel
    Spotted Dick
    Talking Luggage
    Taminella Grinderfall
    Timmy Monster
    Trumpet Girl
    Uncle Deadly
    Uncle Traveling Matt
    Whaddasay Bird
    Winky Pinkerton
    Yolanda Rat
    Youknow Bird
    Zelda Rose
    LaRanaRene and minor muppetz like this.
  19. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    It would have been interesting to see an entry on the Country Trio. I wonder if the book would have said that the trio gave up music to be puppeteers.
  20. Mad Monty fan

    Mad Monty fan Well-Known Member

    Yeah or if they included Spotted Dick and said whether or not he lives in Australia(i don't know if he does, but i just assume he does) and Blind Pew(his description in the colored star would be vision challenged pirate)

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