Weinstein rolls with Fraggle Rock movie

[Redsonga]

I think it would be great to use Gerry Parks as the Fraggle Rock Movie's main Doc, but have all the other international "Doc" characters briefly woven into the story along the way. I can see the main Sproket being mistaken for each "Doc's" Sproket and steal their treats and spoils along the way. I don't know. Just an idea in my head. Something like that will keep the international box office's happy. I can at least see a few key cameos from them.

I agree, that seems just right *lol* The look on Sprocket's face :3!

 

[Luke]

I'm sorry to be a Boober about this but if they act so much like the rock and the message don't matter they may very why shoot themselves in the foot and not get kids to really care about the fraggles as will as push aside old school fans that know them by heart and don't need the 'this is a fraggle, and this is the magical world they come from a why what how they view the world is one of a kind, and the reason they think humans are silly' details explained to them, but may find the characters they grew up with over simplified and 'hipped' in order for kids to 'get them'

From their initial comments i see them including and making a great deal of all the story, character relationships, and hopefully atmosphere of the Fraggle series, with some overall message but i see it a lot less preachy and a lot more in the style of a Muppet movie. I know a lot of hardcores will think that walks all over the whole peace love and harmony thing Jim had going on, and that kids will somehow be missing out on that ... but i think at least at first they would find that too strong. I mean, you only have to look at the very subtle message WALL-E was trying to put across about how we treat the earth, i guarantee you that passed most kids by, i've seen em in the Disney store - they just want the cool robot and the voice changer, lol. I'm not putting kids down saying they can't understand that kinda thing, but they really aren't so used to it as much now, anything needs to be really subtle to make sure the main thing is them "getting" the characters and story by doing fun stuff with them.

I don't think they will go too crazy with it - its one of Hensons few brands left and they still have all these DVD sets out that they will want people buy so i don't think they will change the characters so much as to make them ridiculously "hip", it'll still be the same Fraggles - but i think the good thing is Edwards is from outside Henson so he isnt so blinded by all the legacy of them (not being an old skool fan or employee) and he's hot right now, about the best they can get so they will want him to make his mark. If this means the kids are more exposed to the old show and it leads maybe to a new Fraggle TV series then i'm sure while it would obviously be different for the times they could start to bring in a lot more of the old elements and messages.

 

[Redsonga]

I know a lot of hardcores will think that walks all over the whole peace love and harmony thing Jim had going on, and that kids will somehow be missing out on that ... but i think at least at first they would find that too strong. I mean, you only have to look at the very subtle message WALL-E was trying to put across about how we treat the earth, i guarantee you that passed most kids by, i've seen em in the Disney store - they just want the cool robot and the voice changer, lol....I'm not putting kids down saying they can't understand that kinda thing, but they really aren't so used to it as much now, anything needs to be really subtle to make sure the main thing is them "getting" the characters and story by doing fun stuff with them

I don't know, I won't think that just because they like the 'cool robot ' they don't understand the message on top of it. It is possible that they very much do 'get it', it's just Wall-e is so adorable everyone wants to buy him (I know I do, and I was raised on films like Fern Gully. Just because I love Wall-e as a character and a product does not mean I don't have the ability to understand a deeper meaning, and I would not sell little ones minds short in the same way). Nothing needs to be more subtle, kids are not so slow witted they can only take in one layer of story at a time after all ^.^. If that was so the Harry Potter books (badly written at times or not) would have not have gotten as far as they did with all the character relationships and themes to began with . Even the movies more simple retake on them makes 'getting' even the most in depth message FR could give in a movie like connecting the dots IMHO...

As for fun, I was not saying that tying the fraggles to the rock and showing why they are magical and what sort of world they came for was important had to come at the cost of having fun ^.^. The fraggles were always about having fun, but they were always able to deal with serious elements and keep having fun, that was part of their charm IMHO, that they came from that sort of world and mindset....

A FR movie to me is not just something you can do just in the style of the Muppet Movie, because although they are a part of the muppet family I think they aren't exactly of the same nature as 'normal' muppets . Where they come from effects their mindsets, characters, and the whole nature of what makes them 'magic' IMHO so deeply that to leave that magical peaceful place with all its culture and meaning as an afterthought or single scene is like cutting out a part of it's heart to me...

but i think the good thing is Edwards is from outside Henson so he isnt so blinded by all the legacy of them (not being an old skool fan or employee) and he's hot right now, about the best they can get so they will want him to make his mark.

I dunno, I still have my doubts, just because he is there and 'hot' does not mean he is exactly has the best mindset for this...I know the whole 'we should be grateful to get anything, old mindsets are bad' POV is very common now but I really did not care for the 'anything' I got in terms of Very Merry X-Mas and Muppets Wizard Of Oz lately, and would hate for the FR movie to be added to that list...

I just hope that there is someone there that gives the okay on ideas making sure that too many things are not written off as 'gifts to hardcore fans' when they are necessary to the heart of FR.

If this means the kids are more exposed to the old show and it leads maybe to a new Fraggle TV series then i'm sure while it would obviously be different for the times they could start to bring in a lot more of the old elements and messages.

I still say times aren't that different, if anything the message of FR is even more here and now than it was in the 80's, what with the internet and all .

 

[Luke]

I don't know, I won't think that just because they like the 'cool robot ' they don't understand the message on top of it. It is possible that they very much do 'get it', it's just Wall-e is so adorable everyone wants to buy him (I know I do, and I was raised on films like Fern Gully. Just because I love Wall-e as a character and a product does not mean I don't have the ability to understand a deeper meaning, and I would not sell little ones minds short in the same way). Nothing needs to be more subtle, kids are not so slow witted they can only take in one layer of story at a time after all ^.^. If that was so the Harry Potter books (badly written at times or not) would have not have gotten as far as they did with all the character relationships and themes to began with . Even the movies more simple retake on them makes 'getting' even the most in depth message FR could give in a movie like connecting the dots IMHO...

Different target audience, Fraggle for everything it also is, was always meant to be suitable for pre-school as well and i can't see that changing. I don't know if you have ever seen Henson show "The Hoobs" but it was very similar to Fraggle in some ways (created by the Fraggles co-creater infact) with the exploration, songs and character relationships - and even a message, but it was targetted much more specifically at todays pre-school and done in a much more basic and dumbed down way so the whole message thing was put over but by weaving it a lot more heavily and subtley into funny action and adventure scenes than in maybe the introspective, peaceloving way the Fraggles did it sometimes. Although i don't think at times even the Hoobs viewers neccesarily got or bothered about the message, i can see this movie being a bit more in that direction, just more detailed and less dumbed down production wise. Thinking about it, some of the best episodes of Fraggle to me were the more action adventure led, rather than the moody Mokey hippie loving type ones ... Red, Wembley were my favorites, and Boober for some great comic asides. Maybe i'm just not such a hardcore Fraggle enthusiast as yourself, i preferred Muppets but i think the way they are going is more likely to appeal to more people but i don't see it drastically different. I think Disney for Muppets and hopefully Henson, for Fraggle are learning a lot more about writing Fraggles/Muppets for todays audiences but with the classic feel. I think thats what led to the problems with MFS, VMX and Oz (although i thought VMX was closest they had come to getting things right in ages) but the writing and understanding of the characters seems a lot sharper now.

As for Wall-E, i just have my doubts that the message was put across effectively for a young child to undertstand it - maybe subconsciously but i never saw any kid walking out going "gosh mom, is that what could happen to our planet?". It was a strange one, i expect most kids went in there thinking he was gonna be like Buzz Lightyear but infact Eve was the one kicking HIS backside (now thats one for the feminists). I'm not too sure really it was ever visualized as that much of a kids movie, though obviously Disney wanted to hype it and sell cool robot toys so they had to. In Wall-E's case i think from what i've heard from the writers they weren't so bothered about the message though, it was just coincidental to the story.

 

[Redsonga]

Thinking about it, some of the best episodes of Fraggle to me were the more action adventure led, rather than the moody Mokey hippie loving type ones ... Red, Wembley were my favorites, and Boober for some great comic asides

Maybe it was because I was raised by the hippie generation but I never saw the message as very heavy headed or moody, just hopeful. I didn't feel like I was ever being forced to think anything, it was more like the episodes that were more centered on the message where just speaking of some deep unchanging truth about life, those truths that give one a sense of well being when the rest of the world is crazy or hurtful ...

Red is actually my favorite and has been forever (I'm cheerful like her a lot), but Mokey is more like me in mindset . And Boober..well gosh darn it who couldn't love Boober in any time period? *hugs the Boober*

I think Disney for Muppets and hopefully Henson, for Fraggle are learning a lot more about writing Fraggles/Muppets for todays audiences but with the classic feel. I think thats what led to the problems with MFS, VMX and Oz (although i thought VMX was closest they had come to getting things right in ages) but the writing and understanding of the characters seems a lot sharper now.

I hope your right . Even if I hated VMX *lol*

 

[Drtooth]

Honestly, I don't think they'll mean to play favorites with the "Doc" characters, but I see them using the US/Canadian version. It's most readily indentified with the show and that's the way companies work. The fact that they made more than one "Doc" was quite unusual and special and probably took money. I'm not sure the effort will be made again. But we'll see.

Exactly. IF Doc is in this film, I can't see them refilming footage for any other country much less than they would have for the 2 Sesame Street Movies to edit in scenes with Moische Oofnik, Tiffy, or Pancho. That is, unless they have some sort of arrangement or something.

But then again, I don't know what time frame the FR movie is supposed to take place. If Doc isn't in the main segment (due to the film sort of continuing where the show left off), I'd love to see him have a small cameo somewhere.

Regarding the Gorgs, the only way I can see it working is if they're used as "bookends" at the beginning and/or end. Like if the Fraggles had to get something from Outer Space for the Gorgs, or to stop them (depending on what their relationship is in this film lol).

Truthfully, that's what I'd like to see, depending on how much of the movie takes place in the rock. I could see the Gorgs somehow launching the Fraggles into the real world, but I'd hate to see something corny about the Gorgs trying to take over the human world (unless they play it for laughs, and they fail in a Pinky and the Brain sort of way).

Though Frogboy's suggestion, having him run around as a gag, ala Sweetums is pretty brilliant a way to handle him.

Anyway, the only thing that has me wary is they clearly have to interact in the modern world. Personally, I thinik the first 3 Muppet movies were a great example of what I'm talking about. They seem dated only in a way that they made the films at a certain point in time, and you see some of the fashion and some of the celebs, but it still holds tight to a more timeless aesthetic.

Only films I could call truely timeless are MCC and MTI, as they take place in storybook periods. But what I mean by having a timeless aesthetic, they aren't like MFS, VMX, and (especially) MOZ, where the pop culture product outnumbered the timelessness.

 

[RedPiggy]

but I'd hate to see something corny about the Gorgs trying to take over the human world (unless they play it for laughs, and they fail in a Pinky and the Brain sort of way).

Dies laughing.

I personally, though, don't think "world conquest" would be Gorg-ish. They haven't met anybody, it seems, since the Middle Ages. Sharp learning curve ahead. I don't think they could survive such a learning curve, actually. The last thing we want is for the gov't to try to nuke Imagin... er ... the Gorg Kingdom.

One idea that could work is the fact they're lonely. Maybe they have the Fraggles set off in Outer Space to see if any more Gorgs (particularly female ones for obvious reasons) exist anywhere else in the universe. I feel so sorry for Junior. He should get hitched.

Though Frogboy's suggestion, having him run around as a gag, ala Sweetums is pretty brilliant a way to handle him.

I agree that it would be immensely amusing ... but I feel there should be a point to him being there. Pointless running gags, to me at least, is more a Muppet thing than a Fraggle thing.

I'm kinda in the middle between modernizing it and keeping it devoid of "blasphemy" ... ROFL. That image on Edwards' blog, the one that looks like Gobo and Boober are fighting over the steering wheel of a vehicle doesn't bother me very much. I thought it looked hilarious ... reminded me of the Muppet movie and Caper. As long as their personalities are intact, and Fraggles don't end up as homeless prostitutes, I don't really care WHAT they do.

 

[The Count]

Huh? Homeless female prostitute Fraggles/Gorgs? That could lead to another Labyrinthian connected fic... *Mumble mumble mumble, falls back asleep.

 

[wwfpooh]

I mean, you only have to look at the very subtle message WALL-E was trying to put across about how we treat the earth, i guarantee you that passed most kids by, i've seen em in the Disney store - they just want the cool robot and the voice changer, lol. I'm not putting kids down saying they can't understand that kinda thing, but they really aren't so used to it as much now, anything needs to be really subtle to make sure the main thing is them "getting" the characters and story by doing fun stuff with them.

Sadly, I see where you're going and it is true to an extent that--without the exposure we got--the kids of today need straightforward stories to get into a product.

This change of style--and money--was why subtle shows like Animaniacs! on KidsWB! were canned in favor for a more action-driven product style (ala that of the Japanese anime), in my honest opinion (and this was because kids' perspectives and attitudes were changing). I just hope that the peaceful message of the Fraggles isn't driven into the dirt as the film's story progresses, because the message was what Fraggle Rock was all about, considering Jim himself said as much (for the show was created solely to end war & bring various different peoples together, as well as to be light-heartedly entertaining as the beloved musically-inclined series it was [and hopefully, will forever be]).

 

[Drtooth]

This change of style--and money--was why subtle shows like Animaniacs! on KidsWB! were canned in favor for a more action-driven product style (ala that of the Japanese anime), in my honest opinion (and this was because kids' perspectives and attitudes were changing).

You know the real (even more frustraiting) reason why A! was cancelled, right? Apparently the majority of the audience was over the intended age group. And all that demographic crap came into play. Sort of like how Cedric the Entertainer's show was canned because not enough white people watched (I watched, and I'm white).

Anyway, Corey here has been battling rediculous production notes and suggestions (and scoffed at a suggestion to give them a robot side kick) this entire project, and it seems he has the upperhand in this project. So far, I really think this guy's integrity will sell the fact we have a solid film that pleases the fans and new audience.