President Obama!

[CensoredAlso]

Lol, that's very cute. Gotta love those Irish accents! Can't believe how long it went on though, lol.

 

[Fragglemuppet]

Yep, and as T.R. the rooster put it, "Boy's got a way with a lyric." Lol! I don't know who they were that were singing though.

 

[Yva Minstrel]

I respect your opinion, I don't think Palin represented all women either (I'm not for drilling for instance). But I don't think being against abortion is just a religious issue. It's about justice and compassion for both the mother and the baby. Choice is a neutral concept and can justify anything, including negative things. There has to be more than just choice, there has to be compassion.

Oh no debate there, I do think compassion is of the utmost importance, however, I also believe that this is an issue of compassion for all people on each sides of a virtual fence. I don't want to come across as though I am like 'Sargeant Friday' and 'just the facts please' as I am not. However, the issue of compassion makes this particular topic extremely difficult, if not impossible. Emotions are bound to come into it, whether one is a political figure or not.

I do tend to think of myself as being a compassionate person. However, while I think compassion is a very noble and valid emotion, I also think that objectivity, open-mindedness, logic and understanding figure in as well. After all, when a leader is dealing with certain issues, specifically those that do stir emotions up like a chicken soup, then it is very important for them to not just think with their hearts, but also with their mind.

 

[Yva Minstrel]

I'd like to thank Yva Minstrel and Heralde for sharing their views on an extremely controversial issue in a respectful way. They both used I statements and made it clear they were addressing their own views and sharing their own opinions. They shared some of the reasoning behind their views but no one resorted to name calling or saying everyone should agree with them. Well done! I hope the rest of us can manage as well.

Thank you very much. I'm really glad that my coming in and taking part in this thread did not offend. I would not ever want to cut someone else down. Everyone is entitled to their views and 'my way or the highway' was never a philosophy that I subscribed to.

Thank you for the acknowledgement, it was truly a nice thing to come back to this forum and see.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I do tend to think of myself as being a compassionate person. However, while I think compassion is a very noble and valid emotion, I also think that objectivity, open-mindedness, logic and understanding figure in as well. After all, when a leader is dealing with certain issues, specifically those that do stir emotions up like a chicken soup, then it is very important for them to not just think with their hearts, but also with their mind.

Oh of course and I hope it didn't sound like I was saying you weren't compassionate or anything.

Well for me it's a lot about justice, and how this affects us all. Babies before birth aren't a separate species, they are something we all were. The abortion issue is about how much dignity and rights all human beings have at a certain stage of life. If I went back in time and discovered a child I knew and loved was now gone through abortion, I'd be devastated. The fetus and that child are one in the same, not separate things.

Here's what worries me. I've heard in the media lately that many fathers are starting to demand the right to deny their parenthood and not pay child support to their child, if they didn't plan to have that baby. They want to leave the mother on her own. It's frustrating obviously, but on the other hand, these men only want the same rights women have now (and they say as much). The right to deny parenthood if it wasn't what they planned. If we say babies can be denied before birth, then why should we expect people to want to take care of them after birth, if it's not their choice? Roe v. Wade was supposed to make things safer for women, but instead it's led a lot of people to shirk responsibilties.

That's all I mean when I say there has to be more than choice. And just to be clear, I'm all for supporting women and mothers and have donated to women's shelters before. Many abortions happen because women feel abandoned, and that needs to change.

 

[MuppetQuilter]

Just a quick note. There are many ways to approach the abortion issue and many ways to think about it. Please remember no one way of thinking about it is the right way-- there is the right way for each of us as individuals and it is up to us to find it for ourselves. It's up to the government to decide what of those views can be pressed upon us as a whole.

I'm a little concerned about this discussion because the content may not be appropriate for all MC members. We have a lot of kids on this board and I don't want us to end up in the situation of having to explain what it is we're talking about here. That's something that could concern a lot of parents. When parents give their kids access to an internet forum they have to expect some off-topic discussions. I can't imagine a parent who allows their child to access MC would be surprised to find a discussion of the election and related issues, but a detailed discussion of abortion is a little more intense than they may reasonably expect.

I am not closing the discussion but I am asking that everyone think about what a parent might want their child to read.

 

[JEANYLASER]

I did vote for Obama and I glad he won! January 20, 2009 is a big day!

 

[CensoredAlso]

I am not closing the discussion but I am asking that everyone think about what a parent might want their child to read.

I definitely agree that parents should have the right to decide how to approach this with their child. I've said what I have to say anyway and I may just end the discussion here and discuss it elsewhere, because it's too important to me. Thank you for the opportunity.

 

[Yva Minstrel]

Just a quick note. There are many ways to approach the abortion issue and many ways to think about it. Please remember no one way of thinking about it is the right way-- there is the right way for each of us as individuals and it is up to us to find it for ourselves. It's up to the government to decide what of those views can be pressed upon us as a whole.

Of course, I know what you are saying, and I have absolutely no intention of continuing this discussion. I did not intend to comment on anything further after my first posting, except that the word 'compassion' was mentioned and there was something that begged clarification.

I will continue to discuss, but this issue I will simply leave at the door. You are right of course, there are as many ages of people reading as there are layers to this issue, and we should be aware of that family friendly aspect. Thanks for the kind way in reminding us of that.

 

[Teheheman]

I personally think that once people stop trying to push their views in other peoples faces, and when people stop trying to shove what they think and what they want and just start to find the love in their hearts toward their fellow human beings, then this place would be a lot better than it was regardless of WHO'S president.

Daniel