President Obama!

[anytimepally]

I'm extremely disappointed that Prop 8 is passing. This is more significant than the other two state constitutional amendments that banned gay marriage last night because this reverses California state policy on marriage. There are many, many happily married gay couples living in California who now don't know if their marriages are still legal. Couples have been placed in a bizarre limbo-- which has to be a bad deja vu for some couples in San Francisco. To me, this is just cruel.

Me too.. As to the legal issue, my guess is that existing marriages will have to be honored, otherwise, they'll run into ex post facto issues, so it should only affect unmarried couples.. which is, of course, small consolation.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Abortion is not a seriouse Issue?

It is a serious issue, and it's one I do think religious organizations should protest. I just don't think voting for one candidate or the other is going to help. The Republicans are all talk and haven't help the issue.

 

[anytimepally]

I'm wondering how many people in Michigan are going to suddenly develop glaucoma in the coming months..

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I have long felt that homophobia is the last remaining acceptable prejudice in this country.

I agree. I have a quote that makes my friends chuckle: "There are too many people in this world who hate others because of race, religion, creed, or relationship preference, and I hate those haters."

In other news, I also think the judgemental are detrimental to the real Christians who, in my opinion, should be more about love and understanding than fire and brimstone, as I was taught was Christ's way of life. People need to be a bit more accepting of each other, and the prejudices of the world need to be buried so everyone will get along and all good people can live their lives.

I have to agree with a statement Dolly Parton once made: "Why shouldn't gay people be allowed to get married? They have a right to be miserable, too!" Ha ha. Seriously, though, I hope this will be a thing of the past and folks in love will be able to move forward in a beautiful life together.

I'll just sit here at home, in the meantime, in that dark corner over there crying...alone...

(Kidding.)

Anyway, I thought that was a legal thing in California. Where did Ellen Degeneres go get married? She lives in CA. Shows how much I know, huh?

As for prior posts along the way: There are diplomatic ways of sharing ideas with one another and discussing points. I've seen some posts that were very fair and friendly and I applaud those. There are some who have been downright snippy, and that needs to stop, please. I don't think this thread needs to be locked or closed by any means, but I do think it needs to be kept as clean and friendly as it can be by those posting in it. If I think someone is being too rude with their posts, then I'll be contacting you as moderator directly.

As for the thread topic: I cheer on Obama. He's now our President and I look forward to seeing what all he can do in his next four years, and hopefully his agenda isn't about himself but about his country--which (from all his advertising and campaigning) it will be.

I agree with a prior post about safely and slowly bringing our troops home and that folks 4 years ago felt strongly about its purpose and are tired of it by now. I also feel very strongly agreed that he should ask HIT to bring Season 4 to DVD as a stand alone set.

Still, he has promised a good change and I look forward to something good finally (like, recently, gas prices going down is good, and the Red Beans and Rice I made the other night was good, though the cornbread was better...I shouldn't mention gas and beans together like that, I suppose).

What was I talking about? Oh, yeah:
Go, Obama.

 

[Cindy]

As for prior posts along the way: There are diplomatic ways of sharing ideas with one another and discussing points. I've seen some posts that were very fair and friendly and I applaud those. There are some who have been downright snippy, and that needs to stop, please. I don't think this thread needs to be locked or closed by any means, but I do think it needs to be kept as clean and friendly as it can be by those posting in it. If I think someone is being too rude with their posts, then I'll be contacting you as moderator directly.

I 100% agree. I'll also add that it's fine to state your view(s), just try not to be judgemental or attack those with opposing views. And with topics such as these I realize that is hard to do. Perhaps the best thing to do if someone's comments are ruffling your feathers is just to ignore it and move on. You're not likely to gain anything by saying "I'm right, you're wrong" anyway. Although feel free to "say" it all you want, we won't hear you.

 

[MuppetQuilter]

It was legal in California. Abridged version of gay marriage in California in the recent past: San Francisco mayor started issuing marriage licenses to gay couples. Big uproar. Anti-gay marriage initiative went on the ballot (I may have the chronology off here as my own state was having its own fight on gay marriage at the same time and it all gets mushed together in my head). State supreme court ruled the initiative was unconstitutional as it was discrimination and gay marriage became legal in Cal.

Gay marriage in Cal differed from marriage rights in Mass. because Mass law said the right only extends to people who live in Mass (or maybe it extends to people who have gay marriage in their home state-- I'm not a legal expert)-- in Cal any gay couple, regardless of residency, could legally marry.

Prop 8 was created to get around the supreme court ruling because unlike the previous initiative it is an amendment to the state constitution. Constitutional amendments are much harder to change than initiatives or "normal" laws.

I'm not sure what legal challenges exist for Prop 8. Ultimately I believe the federal supreme court will have to find it a violation of the US constitution as it gives special rights to one class of citizens on rather arbitrary grounds and that just doesn't ring true with "all men are created equal" and "unalienable rights that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

I have no problem with limitations on marriage rights. I'm very much in favor of denying marriage rights to 10 year olds. Perfectly reasonable that if we are going to give married couples special privileges and rights (tax deductions, rights of inheritance, medical power of attorney, rights of inheritance) because we recognize marriage as a special contract intended to last a lifetime, well, then we can require people wait to marry till they are old enough to understand the full implications of the decision. But that is an equally applied requirement.

I don't see how one can argue that denying marriage rights to one group of adults isn't unequal treatment. It also abridges the rights of millions of Californians to pursue happiness.

And on that note-- the first appeal of Prop 8 has been filed with the Cal supreme court. The argument is that it is too sweeping a change, violating the equality rights of many citizens, to fall within the legal requirements for what can be a constitutional amendment. Apparently it is acknowledged that the argument is a long shot but it is the first step.

 

[dwayne1115]

and if your going to get dirty with your posts you can come swim with me in my pool of mud!

 

[CensoredAlso]

I have a quote that makes my friends chuckle: "There are too many people in this world who hate others because of race, religion, creed, or relationship preference, and I hate those haters."

That's a good quote!

I know not everyone will agree with this but...I admire Obama for fighting against poverty for his whole career, and hope he will continue to do so. Yet he's chosen to ignore the abortion issue. Why can't he support both mothers who need support and help, and their babies?

Not that McCain would have been my choice. It's the Republicans who have caused so much of our financial troubles.

If supporting gay marriage is important (and it is), then I will also support the right of every human being to live, from start to finish.

 

[Fragglemuppet]

Wow, a lot has happened in this thread!
Well, all I really wanted to say when I came back was, thanks Jamie for posting the transcription of the speech! The more I'm hearing from him and about him, the better he's sounding! Unfortunately, the only way I know Biden is because my aunt lives in Delaware, and is a big supporter of his. I don't really know anything about him or his views.
It's yet another product of my ignorance, or partial ignorance, (I'm getting better, honest!), of current events, but I've never heard of prop8 until now. I get the gist of it from these posts though, and I am very sorry and upset about it! I'm glad it's being apealed, even if it is a longshot. I have faith!

 

[CensoredAlso]

It's yet another product of my ignorance, or partial ignorance, (I'm getting better, honest!), of current events, but I've never heard of prop8 until now. I get the gist of it from these posts though, and I am very sorry and upset about it! I'm glad it's being apealed, even if it is a longshot. I have faith!

Well it was only a California proposition, right? I don't usually know about other states' props, though I probably should.