Steve Whitmire has left the Muppets, Matt Vogel to continue as Kermit

[Mo Frackle]

I never thought of John Kennedy. I think another one of the guests might be David Rudman, because of the description of how a guest worked with the muppets since the Muppets take Manhattan and started working on Sesame street.

Yeah, that was mentioned a few pages back. Rudman and Tartalgia are believed to be the other two.

 

[Muppetboy09]

Well aren't we just a bunch of Super Sleuths

 

[ErinAardvark]

We’ve has this discussion on here before. It was noted that sometimes it’s not so much what is written, but rather how it is carried out by the actor/performer. Case in point: In the 1960’s version of The Honeymooners, Audrey Meadows was no longer playing Alice. Jackie Gleason hired a new actress (Sheila MacRae I believe). During a rehearsal, the new Alice read her lines, but had her character cry as she argued. Jackie Gleason told her not to because he felt it made the situation too sad and serious. You can read a script numerous ways. To say that it’s all about the writing and that the performer bears no responsibility does a disservice to all of the great actors/puppeteers/voice actors who have successfully and uniquely breathed life into so many characters in the entertainment industry. If the performers get credit for reading a script well, there has to also be accountability if they do not.

You *do* raise a good point, but I am not changing my opinion on the matter, just as I don't expect you to change yours.

 

[D'Snowth]

Well then, it would be the direction that would have to be blamed instead of the writing or the performance.

But really, this is all turning into one big blame game.

 

[Old Thunder]

Late again, but I listened to the Muppet Thought of the Week ft. Kermit. I dunno, I think Matt sounds similar enough to Steve. Just as Steve sounded similar enough to Jim. Sounds all fine to me.

 

[Censored]

Well then, it would be the direction that would have to be blamed instead of the writing or the performance.

But really, this is all turning into one big blame game.

I guess the question could be whether or not Steve was following direction.

 

[xSunnyEclipse]

I guess the question could be whether or not Steve was following direction.

Well I mean, we've had the discussion before. But I know he tried to give notes about Kermit's character on the 2015 show, and it seemed like they didn't listen to his notes.

So again like I said, they get scripts and they have to go with it. No matter if they argued if the character wouldn't do/say something. Maybe he didn't follow direction, but again who knows?

 

[D'Snowth]

Well I mean, we've had the discussion before. But I know he tried to give notes about Kermit's character on the 2015 show, and it seemed like they didn't listen to his notes

Again, I think it's less that they didn't listen to him, but rather, they just didn't want to put up with him, because again, this is a common occurence in show business: if actors or performers get too nitpicky about the material they're working with, that can threaten your job security. Many a time's actors have been let go from successful shows or what have you for complaining about the material too much, and it sounds very much like that's what happened to Steve.

Now granted, Disney and ABC have made the mistakes of bringing in non-Muppet writers to handle these things, and in cases like this, I would say that Steve's notes/suggestions/nitpicks were justifiable to a certain degree . . . but unfortunately, we're long out of the days of being able to handle business with just handshakes, as Jim did - this is the corporate side of show business, and unfortunately, the corporate side could care less about the artistic or creative process. Again, it seems blatantly obvious to me that ABC bringing in writers from THE BIG DANG THEORY, THE OFFICE, MODERN FAMILY, and shows like that was their attempt to try to give THE MUPPETS (2015) a more mainstream atmosphere to appeal to mainstream audiences . . . but the Muppets were never really about trying to be mainstream, and Jim was always wanting to raise the bar as far as puppetry and everything else is concerned . . . but that's not how Disney or ABC or any of these big corporations operate, so they're not going to go that route, and as such, decades-spanning franchises like the Muppets are suffering as a result, because they're not being allowed to do what they've always done their own way.

So again, it's a two-way street: one way, you have the integrity of the Muppets on the line because you've got writers who don't know how to write for them, and directors who don't know how to direct them, and this is supposedly what Steve was speaking out against. The other way, however, you have studio heads, network executives, and suits who don't want to put up with any complaints, whines, nitpicks, or anything like that, and if any of their subordinates do this, they'll look for any reason to fire them.

 

[ErinAardvark]

Hence why I think that the truth is somewhere in the middle, if you know what I mean.

 

[animalrescuer]

It might be a case of the “Anti-Steve trolls” vs. the “Anti-Disney trolls.” May the best trolls win.

I'm not sure I can trust this guy. I mean the @FleeceThroat account on Twitter was ever so conveniently created after Steve was fired and after it was announced to the media. If this document is real, then I'm not sure what to do! I still want to trust Steve and everything he's been saying on his blog, but unless we get concrete proof of the authenticity of said document, then I'll still be willing to read whatever Steve types up.