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Discussion in 'Henson People' started by dwmckim, Jul 20, 2012.
Yep I was right!
Disney resorts support a lot of venues for different groups. They're equal-opportunity.
Where did you get the picture of the companies, Pinkflower?
I know I said I was done, but I have to say one more thing:
There is a difference between respecting gay marriage and supporting it. Respecting it is when someone, whether they agree or disagree with the views, believes that it is a personal decision and agrees to still embrace the diversity. Supporting it...that's when someone goes full-out force to say they agree with it, and they will back it. It's a large difference.
And it bugs me when JHC and the Muppets are considered supporters. If Jim was around, I do believe that he would've shown respect for it. But whether or not he did support it or not, I believe that he would've only gone so far as to have the Muppets respect it. He was big into embracing those differences, and he taught that lesson through the Muppets. But he never had the Muppets push a specific belief forward. I don't believe that Jim would've allowed the Muppets to be on that list.
I will say something here, I have lost an air of respect for the Jim Henson Company, Disney, and the Muppets as the are today, not because they respected and embraced those differences through the Muppets, but because they pushed a specific belief forward, something that I do not believe Jim would've done.
I didn't find the picture JVCarroll did.
Oops, my mistake. Than I wonder where he got it?
I dont know you'd have to ask him. Lol.
First of all I'm gonna agree to disagree in thinking Jim Henson wouldn't have pushed such a belief forward. Unless you could ask Jim Henson himself how do you know he wouldn't have pushed such a specific belief forward? Things were different when Jim Henson was alive. People just didn't ask those types of questions at the time.
I personally respect The Jim Henson Company, and Disney a lot more now then I ever did. But since were just speculating I firmly believe Jim Henson would be a supporter of people from all different walks of life today if he were asked the question concerning gay rights. And I think he most certainly would've pushed such a belief forward.
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say here. Do you want the Jim Henson Company and Disney (since they own the Muppets they speak for them essentially) to not take stands on issues? Because if that's what you are trying to say, I disagree with you.
Jim would be a supporter of people with all kinds of diversities. I get that. My backing that he wouldn't have pushed this belief forward is because, like I stated, when you think about it, he never pushed belief's forward. He taught equality and diversity, but he never pushed a specific belief forward and said that it's good. He never pushed forward a certain religion, a certain outlook, or a certain belief. He believed that we should all respect each other's beliefs and outlooks, but he never actually pushed one forward through his work. I'm not saying he wouldn't have respected gay marriage...I believe he would have. But I'm saying that he wouldn't have pushed it out to the forefront, saying that we should be supporting gay marriage because it stands for marriage equality. He would've just stood out for all equality to begin with, without channeling it through a certain belief. I hope that makes sense...I'm not saying that he would've or wouldn't have supported such a thing, but I'm saying he wouldn't have pushed it out to the forefront through his work.
I'm saying I don't want them to take a stand on this issue...I want them to take as stand on diversity as a whole. I want them to teach diversity and respect of people's beliefs instead of marriage equality specifically. I want them to teach respecting people's opinions on both sides of it, that everyone's opinions on both sides are important.
Your point makes more sense now that you've explained it in your last post, how the Muppets should be in favor of diversity without picking up anything specific to jump on. I may disagree with part of it, but thanks for clearing things up for me.
I understand what your saying however you can't make that assumption as that is something Jim Henson would've done today. Because we simply won't ever know.
What I'm more getting at is that though they do have the right to stand up with what they believe in, I feel they did it through the wrong medium. If the people behind the decision to have those companies back it wanted to state their support for this issue, I feel they shouldn't have done it through the companies, companies that stand for diversity on all aspects, not just channeling through a specific one. I feel that instead of doing it through companies that stand for diversity, they should rather continue to teach respecting and embracing diversity as a whole, instead of getting into a specific belief and backing it. I don't care how Jim would've reacted in his own personal beliefs...I'm talking about that through his work and company, I don't believe he would've pushed this belief forward rather than have pushed the idea forward to embrace all diversities, instead of targeting in on a specific one. He would've pushed the idea of respecting other views and diversities, but I don't believe he would have zeroed in on one specific belief. He had always taught diversity embracement as a whole, without pushing ANY personal beliefs forward.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
They are pushing a right, not a belief! Those are important distinctions that are continually getting lost in this discussion. The only thing they are "pushing" is inclusion and standing up for that sort of thing perfectly falls in line with every Muppet, Fraggle, Sesame and Henson production I've ever seen.
One isn't required to agree with the decisions of others in order to support the right for them to make them. That is exactly what's happening here and I'd lose respect for anyone who'd lose respect for their advocacy to protect the differences of others.
The Muppets have been enthusiastic advocates for the religious holiday of Christmas for years and that hasn't bothered you. The nativity was even prominently featured in the John Denver special. So that's okay, but this isn't? Forgive me, but your disappointment appears to be one-sided.
I have a hard time believing that you'd take issue with the Henson Company if your right to worship at a church of your choosing was being threatened and they came to the defense of Christians. That's what this is. Nothing more.
So the question is, do you think Christians should have greater civil rights in America than gay people?
But see I think what we forget today is that the Muppets did occasionally take stands on Civil Rights and back then that was hugely controversial.
THANK YOU JVCARROLL! You said all the things that I couldn't get across!!!
It is great that they're pushing inclusion. What I'm saying is that I feel that they should push inclusion more as a whole, "we include everyone because of their differences."
And I know that the Muppets have celebrated Christmas for years. But take note that it was only in the John Denver special that they even referenced the religious side of Christmas. They used Christmas as an opportunity to focus on love and inclusion. Even in the John Denver special they did not push Christianity, they talked a bit about it, but they didn't push it. That's what I'd prefer these companies to do. I don't care if they talk about gay marriage and say that we should be respecting everyone's decisions on it. I don't want them to push it. Like I said before, there is a difference between respecting and pushing. I think it would be great if they respect. What I don't want them to do is push. They respected the religious aspect, but they didn't actually push the Christian faith.
I do understand your thinking that my argument may seem one-sided. In fact, I might even believe that if I was a random person reading my posts. But the thing is, believe it or not, I would take issue with JHC pushing that every Christian should be able to worship at a church of their choosing. I'd rather them teach DIVERSITY, a universal message that transfers to every single belief and right.
Thanks! It's such a difficult thing to articulate, yet such a basic concept.
And just to clarify, I'm not finding fault with the fact that they are supporting marriage equality, or any other right or belief, I'm only finding fault with the method they chose to go about doing it.
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