Your Thoughts: The Muppet Show Comic Book

[DTWolf]

I picked up issue #3 this morning and read it when I got home.

There are lots of funny moments and some good skits and I think Kermit's head is actually being drawn better now.

If you usually skip over the promotional text page at the back of comics (you know, where they talk about their staff and tell you what's coming soon), you might want to look at the one in this issue--there's a brief Q&A with the writer of Muppet Robin Hood and also a reminiscince about discovering the Muppets by way of Star Wars.

Now [[SPOLIER! SPOILER!]] the thing that bothers me: the plot of this issue revolves around finding out what species Gonzo is. Now I know some people didn't like Muppets From Space and would prefer to forget about it. But starting with exactly the same question and ignoring the movie completely is bad form (to quote Captain Hook). If the comic doesn't want to acknowledge a Muppet movie, OK, but to boldly plant your flag in the same territory as if no one had been there before is, in my opinion, rather rude. If you're doing a Gonzo issue of the comic, why do one about this? Was this the ONLY idea for a Gonzo story in the world? Surely not.

I still enjoyed the comic, I just would've enjoyed it more if it hadn't been flying in the face of a previous Muppet effort.

 

[grail]

It appears that TMS issue #3 wasn't released this week. I hope that fans don't have to wait anothe rmonth (or more) for the next issue.

Diamond seems to be having issues remembering to pack orders of comics from companies that aren't Marvel and DC recently. Stuff that is done and reported to be printed either doesn't ship at all or only ships to part of the country. The last issue of Atomic Robo, a title in which the creators' whole philosophy means THEY don't put out late issues, was delayed by a week because Quebecor (the company that prints pretty much ALL comic books) had an "issue", and then ANOTHER week, when Diamond only shipped it to ONE of their 3 distribution centers. Then...thanks to the fact that they had pushed back that issue by two weeks, they decided to push back the NEXT issue by two weeks to compensate for the "typical" 4 week delay. (which means it's out today! Go buy, it's my favorite comic!)

There have been rumblings in the past that Diamond would love to ONLY have Marvel and DC to deal with because that's how they make the most money. With all the changes they've made to their structure recently, it wouldn't surprise me if they weren't purposely sabotaging some of the bigger books from some of the smaller companies. Mouse Guard was supposed to ship last week too, and was strangely absent from my pile.

Maybe I'm being paranoid...

 

[frogboy4]

Now [[SPOLIER! SPOILER!]] the thing that bothers me: the plot of this issue revolves around finding out what species Gonzo is. Now I know some people didn't like Muppets From Space and would prefer to forget about it. But starting with exactly the same question and ignoring the movie completely is bad form (to quote Captain Hook). If the comic doesn't want to acknowledge a Muppet movie, OK, but to boldly plant your flag in the same territory as if no one had been there before is, in my opinion, rather rude. If you're doing a Gonzo issue of the comic, why do one about this? Was this the ONLY idea for a Gonzo story in the world? Surely not.

I still enjoyed the comic, I just would've enjoyed it more if it hadn't been flying in the face of a previous Muppet effort.

"Bad form" seems a little harsh especially considering that Langridge follows the tradition of Gonzo in every other project aside from the much disputed MFS. Frank Oz and Gonzo/Goelz himself has admitted that particular origin was only a gimmick for that movie. The MFS last minute script change to actually make Gonzo an alien (in the world of that particular motion picture) rather than a weirdo with alien fans was in bad form. Langridge's comic is nicely rooted in Muppet tradition. I'm glad that the Muppets are going back to their Muppetyness rather than rewriting history. The ambiguous nature of Gonzo's origin was always a gag in TMS. It fits here.

I will have to order my copy. No time to head down to the store today. Sad overworked Frogboy.

 

[DTWolf]

still some spoilers

"Bad form" seems a little harsh especially considering that Langridge follows the tradition of Gonzo in every other project aside from the much disputed MFS. Frank Oz and Gonzo/Goelz himself has admitted that particular origin was only a gimmick for that movie. The MFS last minute script change to actually make Gonzo an alien (in the world of that particular motion picture) rather than a weirdo with alien fans was in bad form.

Actually I agree that it would have been better to leave the question of Gonzo's species unresolved. But the movie was made and did give an answer to the question, so why not focus the comic on something else?

Having an insurance inspector show up was a brilliant idea, but instead of exploring it the comic veers off into this subject. Why get into a fight with a movie (intentionally or not) when there are so many other great places to go?

 

[Drtooth]

Actually I agree that it would have been better to leave the question of Gonzo's species unresolved. But the movie was made and did give an answer to the question, so why not focus the comic on something else?

I need to grab this comic and read it myself, but I have to say, if they aren't doing the MFS "origin" of Gonzo (which was bull to begin with, since the director screwed up the ending that kept Gonzo's origin ambiguous... check out Joey Mazzarino's Tough Pigs interview... he was NOT happy) I don't think I'd mind. Even Dave Golez sort of disavowed it in an interview.... something to the extent of having Gonzo say "I really thought I was an alien at the end of Muppets From Space... but then I called Frank Oz, and he told me it was only a movie."

So it seems that Muppet staff wants to disavow that (possibly to appease fans).

 

[minor muppetz]

It's interesting that the plot description that was leaked was that "Gonzo's dangerous acts come udner the scruntiny of the theaters insurance agent", yet based on the preview and Tough Pigs review it seems that it's more about the Muppets trying to figure out what Gonzo is. Does Gonzo do any dangerous stunts in this issue?

Heck, does the comci have any other on-stage acts besides what's mentioend in the Tough Pigs review?

Of course, plot descriptions given for the Fozzie issue made it look like the main plot was about Fozzie and Gonzo teaming up for an act, when aparantly it only happened for one short sequence, not as the main plot.

 

[frogboy4]

I need to grab this comic and read it myself, but I have to say, if they aren't doing the MFS "origin" of Gonzo (which was bull to begin with, since the director screwed up the ending that kept Gonzo's origin ambiguous... check out Joey Mazzarino's Tough Pigs interview... he was NOT happy) I don't think I'd mind. Even Dave Golez sort of disavowed it in an interview.... something to the extent of having Gonzo say "I really thought I was an alien at the end of Muppets From Space... but then I called Frank Oz, and he told me it was only a movie."

So it seems that Muppet staff wants to disavow that (possibly to appease fans).

Exactly. MFS caused the perception in the entertainment community that the Muppets were no longer relevant enough for full-scale projects. It's good to step away from that. Even though it has since built a life of its own on DVD - MFS was the film that really hurt the Muppets' standing in many ways for years. Going back to the TMS roots seems logical.

Actually I agree that it would have been better to leave the question of Gonzo's species unresolved. But the movie was made and did give an answer to the question, so why not focus the comic on something else?

Having an insurance inspector show up was a brilliant idea, but instead of exploring it the comic veers off into this subject. Why get into a fight with a movie (intentionally or not) when there are so many other great places to go?

Calm down. Nobody’s landed (especially not Gonzo). I felt you were a little harsh toward Langridge and expected a reaction such as mine.

Did you read either my or Tooth's post? That origin has been refuted by Goelz, Gonzo and Oz. Fozzie and Kermit are not siblings like in GMC, the Muppets didn't all go to college together and Kermit and Piggy are not married like in MTM, they didn't meet as babies like in the long-running cartoon, they aren't pirates or British citizens either.

The Muppets basically met up in an ambiguous sort of way with Kermit as reluctant leader. They then performed a vaudevillian show that was televised for 5 years and went on to make movies as an acting group. That's the only part of the Muppets that seems to be solid. Everything else is up to the individual's imagination and taste so there shouldn't be an argument. I support Langridge for going back to the character's Muppet Show roots. Heck, to be completely honest he should still live in a cigar box.

It's interesting that the plot description that was leaked was that "Gonzo's dangerous acts come udner the scruntiny of the theaters insurance agent", yet based on the preview and Tough Pigs review it seems that it's more about the Muppets trying to figure out what Gonzo is.

The insurance plot description came from the Boom comics website. The origin subplot is the spoiler. I just ordered mine yesterday! Hope it comes soon the Robin Hood one still hasn't shipped!

 

[Drtooth]

I rushed to the comic store today (or as rushed as taking the bus to the square could be) and i just read it. Another faboo issue. All and all, the story sort of reminded me of the Muppet Babies book "What is a Gonzo?"

So far it looks like every issue has a Pigs in Space. Something I'm totally thrilled with. This one is my favorite of the bunch (so far), and I hope to see one next issue as well.

Funny thing about it being a "Gonzo's Story" seemed like most of it was "Scooter's Story about what Gonzo is" and boy was Scooter due for a starring role. But Gonzo was featured in most of the sketches (outside of BOP and PIS). The more I look at his rendition, the more I can see he wants to do the shrimpy, teirpy looking Gonzo from the first couple seasons of the Muppet Show. And I think it really fits.

It was great to see Pops and Bear on Patrol's first appearances here. And I really think they were done justice. I especially liked Gonzo's detective story. Now that was perfectly weird enough for our weirdo.

And I really like how it ended....


SPOILER




what is Gonzo? An Artist.

 

[DTWolf]

Not worth arguing over but I can't stop myself

Did you read either my or Tooth's post? That origin has been refuted by Goelz, Gonzo and Oz. Fozzie and Kermit are not siblings like in GMC, the Muppets didn't all go to college together and Kermit and Piggy are not married like in MTM, they didn't meet as babies like in the long-running cartoon, they aren't pirates or British citizens either.

At the time of my last post, DrTooth hadn't written his, so I couldn't have read it then. Of course I have now, and yes I read yours before replying to it. And yes I know Great Muppet Caper and Treasure Island and such aren't part of the Muppet canon—but that's obvious in a way that's it's NOT obvious for Muppets From Space.

That's the problem. Anyone can see that GMC, MTI, and Muppet Christmas Carol aren't part of the Muppet Show continuity (what there is of it). But Muppets From Space stars the Muppets AS the Muppets, as if it flowed out of the TV show, like a "here's where they are now" story.

You and DrTooth cited examples of official Muppet folks disavowing MFS—but I didn't know one bit of that when I read the comic. And guess what? Lots of other folks don't know about it either. There are plenty of Muppet fans who've seen MFS and will read this comic and go "Huh? This comic is acting like that movie never happened! What gives?" And if the reader doesn't know that the first story was just a "what if" kind of thing, then writing a story that undoes or replaces someone else's work is going to seem presumptuous (regardless of what the new author's actual attitude is).

I'm not trying to say Langridge meant to do one thing or another—naturally I don't know—I'm only saying the RESULT is confusing and can upset people and that this problem was fully predictable.

And so I ask again: given that ignoring/overwriting MFS was bound to stir up trouble, why not pick something besides "what is Gonzo?" as a plot? There are so many OTHER Gonzo stories to tell, why get mixed up with this one?

There is so much to love about this issue. It's funny and enjoyable in so many places. I just think it's a shame it got tangled in the "what is Gonzo?" business when that was completely unnecessary.

 

[frogboy4]

Tooth's post cited the same example mine did. That's why I didn't think you read all of my post before responding. I think your initial post was kind of aiming for an rebuttal so I gave a carefully worded and researched one.

I disagree with your take and like Muppetyness of Gonzo's origin pre-MFS confusion. But I guess in this age of increased Muppet product we can now afford to be more critical. I just don't see the point. I'd rather be greatful for such a solid piece of work. Nobody was more suspect than I was about how Langridge's take would manifest itself in the Muppet Comics, but I support his writing 100% so far.

I do understand how that portion of the comic could be confusing to some fans. I personally don't care about appeasing the MFS crowd. It's the project that showed much disrespect to Jerry Juhl IMHO and was the least Muppety of the 6 movies. To me and many other classic Muppet Show fans - Gonzo will always be a weirdo/whatever. But I respect your counter-opinion even though I completely disagree.