Your Thoughts: It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas

[TheDude]

JIM woudl never......

I sincerely hope that Steve never had Kermit say "Porn is fine" because even if Jim did swear on the Arsenio Hall show, he would never have someone from Sesame Street say anything that might make a parent question their trust in the Muppets.

Jim did just that, in 1989...on the jim henson hour. it was the episode where kermit was worried about ratings (either dog city or miss piggys hollywood) before commercail, our loveable sesamee street kermit as performed by Jim said somthing to the effect of...

Kermit- "and when we come back there will be sex"
secondary character- "sex?"
Kemit- "well maybe just a little sex, but stay tuned!"

Just wanted to point out that muppets have always been sexually edgy, even more so BEFORE we lost Jim.

lets see....

TMM- piggy pulls kermit to the ground as they lay on top of each other in the "never before" number

TMS- Piggy is PREGNANT and sings a song about it!

THe CHER SHOW- Kermit says to Cher "so....you wanna fool around."

Come on guys, Anyone who belives that when Jim was around kermit and the muppets were much more APROPRIATE, are mistaken. I think its funny how if kermit would have said "so you wanna fool around" in the VMMCM it would be considered inaporraite just as the "porn is fine." However no fan blinked an eye when Kermit said sexuall lines when Jim was saying the words.

I LOVED the movie and say here here to all who worked on the production. The only thing i felt could have been considerably better was the pacing. VERY SLOW START.

THE DUDE
aka "matt from MF"
aka "NOT JOSH"

 

[Manda:-D]

OK, one thing. I hadn't read the article before a/b the movie. A quote from the director (or someonwe, I

 

[beaker]

Originally posted by Chilly Down

"The magic is somewhere close, yet so far." I'll agree that it isn't totally back, especially with so many original performers missing. Did you get to see The Muppet Show Live last year at MuppetFest? That's the only time they've been able to recapture the magic exactly, in my mind. Friday night didn't completely recapture it, but I thought it worked on a lot of levels. Who knows? Maybe they'll get it right eventually, or maybe as your friend suggested, they'll just have to change.

I think the live Muppet Show gala thing was the debut of what Im calling the new 'theatre' era. Meaning the decision to bring back the theatre, and bring back fan favorites. Seeing the Electric Mayhem was a dream come true...but they debuted several new ideas I hope they implement in the new show: outside real world segments(ie: mahna mahna on the streets of Hollywood at night)
Also, state of the art Muppet News Flash segments, etc. Now people will hate this, but I think the Electric Mayhem need new outfits. Something futuristic or modern maybe. Janice needs a black and white camoflauge baby doll sized shirt with her belly showing. Teeth needs a new hat. They all need a makeover.

 

[frogboy4]

Chilly Down

I hear ya', Tom! Well said.

 

[Manda:-D]

OK, one thing. I hadn't yet read the article a/b the movie on NBC. The director (I think, I forget easy), said, to quote:"The Muppets have enough heart." Exactly HOW MUCH is "enough" heart???? THAT'S what bothered me more than anything else! The Muppets seemed to lack their heart!!!! I'm not talking making them all sappy & sacharinely sweet, but, for Pete's sake, where's the HEART??? The Muppets aren't funny unless you have the heart to help balance the goofiness, sometimes!!!! In the newbie's (ever so) humble opinion.

 

[The Flying Sheep]

Personnly, the movie was a great boost from MFs for me. Even though the first half was slow, I still loved it. My personhel high points were:

The Curce de Lame sequence

Fozzie's run through the lazers had me peeing in my pants.

The Statue made me cry.

David Arquette and the "Hello Dolly refrence"

The "wish I'd never been born" outburst.

The Internet web site moment and the NBC flipper gag.

The entire Second half!

Piggys aparment scene made me cry.

Everyone matters song.

The Piigy Kermit Kiss!!!!!

The Katere and bad dubbing. Hysterical.

 

[ComedianSaBear]

the muppets are the same as they always have been. Your just letting your adult/parent side point of view and saying its not right, but when you were a kid or teen it wasnt even an issue. the muppets arent the perfect angles and watered down like the sesame street gang, if you want to see muppets were everybody is always so happy and problems are easy to solve, then watch sesame street not these muppets

PS i have nothing against sesame street.

 

[petrieboy]

I disagree on the Muppets always being so sexual. The quotes and scenes below are funny- and I do not find them offensive. "Porn is fine" coming from Kermit's mouth offended me. Roger Ebert has always said "It's not what it's about, it's how it's about it." When Kermit said "Porn is fine" he said it matter of factly, not for humour's sake. The difference in the following is that they are said and done with a cheerful wink.

(Kermit- "and when we come back there will be sex"
secondary character- "sex?"
Kemit- "well maybe just a little sex, but stay tuned!"

Just wanted to point out that muppets have always been sexually edgy, even more so BEFORE we lost Jim.

lets see....

TMM- piggy pulls kermit to the ground as they lay on top of each other in the "never before" number

TMS- Piggy is PREGNANT and sings a song about it!

THe CHER SHOW- Kermit says to Cher "so....you wanna fool around.")

THAT IS FUNNY STUFF. "PORN IS FINE" is sad.

I don't mean to completely shove the Christmas movie into the ground. Yes, I noticed a lot more potential than in MFS, but I'm not sure that is saying a lot. I did laugh when Fozzie was trying to tip toe into the lazers. And for all my griping, I should note that I did notice the change in Fozzie's voice, but I was okay with it for some reason- and in fact, I found Fozzie more likable in this than I have for a long time. He seemed younger and more teddy bear like. A little cuter.

Why am I so angry about Piggy's voice? Well- granted "Love Led Us Here" was quite below average. Granted, Frank's voice has been aging. I will cry if I think too much about his absence (and for the record, will he be joining in from time to time?) It's not that I'm opposed just because it's a new voice. But Piggy and Kermit are the biggest characters. They may not be everyone's favorite, but without them, the Muppets are not the Muppets. That is why their voices need precision. What I would like to know is, who is and where did Eric come from? You asked me for an alternative... I gave one many messages back... to host a worldwide search for the most similar Piggy voice. I could hardly stand to hear "Santa Baby." I could hear his voice straining- it sounded like it was too hard for him to use his Piggy imitation voice while going all the way with a song. There was no melody- my muscles tightened listening to it. I don't care for Piggy in her old days, since you're comparing Eric with that. I love Piggy in the 80s. I think Piggy sounds bad on "Never Before/ Never Again" but I think she sounds beautiful on "He'll Make Me Happy" and "Im Gonna Always Love You"
I did also like Kermit visiting Piggy in her apartment.
I know I am giving myself away by saying that I'm a Christian- but it was very offensive for "people like me" to have a corporate Heaven with Whoopi Goldberg, as a God who lays back and watches everything go by without too much thought, while drinking soda (or whatever) out of the bushes.
And I'm the one who didn't find the inclusion of Snoop Doggy Dog offensive at all, because he's a human being and trying to do the right thing by appearing with what I thought were family friendly creatures. I guess I just don't understand how other people's morals work. It's a little like trying to figure out the MPAA ratings system.
As for the music--- a Muppet movie with music, as long as it's good music-- will always be more popular than one without. (I'm willing to wager... anyone?) Music is life. Of course there are people who hate musicals, but there are plenty more who go for the music. THESE ARE THE MUPPETS after all. I find it so ridiculous--- people assume that music is unpopular for reasons like "the new Disney films don't have music." The Disney filmmakers are idiots. They're shoveling out one thing after another, and none of it is classic like "Beauty and the Beast" or "The Lion King." If you make the music, they will come. But it has to be good.
Who should do the new Muppet music? How about Randy Newman? Andrew Lloyd Webber? Alan Menken? Is Paul Williams still alive? Someone who knows how to make Muppety music.

 

[WOMAN! WOMAN!]

Originally posted by petrieboy
When Kermit said "Porn is fine" he said it matter of factly, not for humour's sake. The difference in the following is that they are said and done with a cheerful wink.

I disagree. This was most definitely a joke -- a frog saying 'porn is fine' is funny in itself, but the straight face was part of the funniness, too -- not all jokes need to end in a guffaw. Besides that, this was on a show at (approx.) 1 o'clock in the morning! If your kids are up to see that, they've got bigger problems than hearing 'porn is fine' from a tongue-in-cheek frog.

(I say that with respect for your opinion, Petrieboy. I know your concerns stem from parenthood. I just think we parents have to remember that we might read more into the situation than kids would.)

 

[beaker]

Originally posted by petrieboy

Who should do the new Muppet music? How about Randy Newman? Andrew Lloyd Webber? Alan Menken? Is Paul Williams still alive? Someone who knows how to make Muppety music.

I think Phillip Glass or Hans Zimmer...maybe Danny Elfman?

At any rate I think beyond all the complaints of inuendo(you folks are complainging about the stuff in MCM? Oh boy...just wait til ya saee what Team Todd and Fox have in store next Summer for the theatre.

It's interesting all the threads about voice changes. Lets face it...Jerry Juhl and Frank Oz have departed ways with JHC.
I much rather have a temporarily awkward new take on classic characters than leave em in oblivion limbo like Thog and company.

Anyways, Steve's Kermit was pretty darn new in MCC...now check him out...I point toward the Craig Kilborn appearence. I just saw GMC on dvd yesterday and see no difference now. Brillaint job steve has been doing.

Finally, I hat ehow every thing the Muppets say is held under a microscope. While you could angle a quote that Kermit said 'porn is fine', it was obvious Craig was going off the agreed upon 'setlist' confusing Steve a bit. Sheesh, give him a break...this is the performer who will sit in a tiny box with his arm in the air for hour on end.