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Sam and Friends Book
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Your Thoughts: It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas
- Thread starter Phillip
- Start date
Yeah! Now I remember!
It's kinda Funny becasue David also voices Jimmy, the Guardian Angel on Pelswick.
Of course, Jimmy was more like a weird hippy who gave advice in cryptic clues, while the one on AVMMCM was more of a nebbish.
It's kinda Funny becasue David also voices Jimmy, the Guardian Angel on Pelswick.
Of course, Jimmy was more like a weird hippy who gave advice in cryptic clues, while the one on AVMMCM was more of a nebbish.
beaker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2002
- Messages
- 7,761
- Reaction score
- 858
jetjaguar:
Dude, you run synthpop.net??? ^_^ I'm one of the biggest synthpop fans on here(tho I think Ive spoken to others into it as well on here) I'm on electrogarden.com, but I enjoy checking out synthpop.net, side-line, and other related sites. So cool, Muppets, synthpop, hehe
*listening to Echo Image cover of Neverending Story*
But yes, that Hulk Hogan cameo was a pretty low point for MFS...the first 20 minutes of MFS are brillaint though.
The MCM, I knew it would be hog deep in lame pop references...but I dont look at it as I would a movie, I look at it more as JHC's wink and nod to Muppet fans given all the fan goodies sprinkled throughout not meant for the average viewer tuning in.
Dude, you run synthpop.net??? ^_^ I'm one of the biggest synthpop fans on here(tho I think Ive spoken to others into it as well on here) I'm on electrogarden.com, but I enjoy checking out synthpop.net, side-line, and other related sites. So cool, Muppets, synthpop, hehe
*listening to Echo Image cover of Neverending Story*
But yes, that Hulk Hogan cameo was a pretty low point for MFS...the first 20 minutes of MFS are brillaint though.
The MCM, I knew it would be hog deep in lame pop references...but I dont look at it as I would a movie, I look at it more as JHC's wink and nod to Muppet fans given all the fan goodies sprinkled throughout not meant for the average viewer tuning in.
jetjaguar15
Member
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- Sep 30, 2002
- Messages
- 22
- Reaction score
- 0
No, not totally. I'm the reviews editor for synthpop.net. Micke runs the site, but I do contribute a lot of content.
Zack the Dog
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- Apr 14, 2002
- Messages
- 2,153
- Reaction score
- 37
Jamie
it's to bad they couldn't dub Jerry's voice like they have done in the past, but if he is i'll i could understand. I also wish that Frank would dub his voice just for Sam, Sam always has a only a few lines anyways. Frank would only need to do a few, and he could still be part of the muppets, he always will be but just to have a hand still in a little part of it would be nice, i would want him to do fozzie too, but it's a little much plus i think Eric or whoever is doing a fine job and just needs little work with it. it would be just a little treat just to have frank in a small part of the muppets still. i thought he did Yoda in the movie as a cameo which would be real for him.
Hi Jamie, how long to you think it would take to make the DVD? doyou think we will get it this year (2002) before christmas?
it's to bad they couldn't dub Jerry's voice like they have done in the past, but if he is i'll i could understand. I also wish that Frank would dub his voice just for Sam, Sam always has a only a few lines anyways. Frank would only need to do a few, and he could still be part of the muppets, he always will be but just to have a hand still in a little part of it would be nice, i would want him to do fozzie too, but it's a little much plus i think Eric or whoever is doing a fine job and just needs little work with it. it would be just a little treat just to have frank in a small part of the muppets still. i thought he did Yoda in the movie as a cameo which would be real for him.
Stryder Wolfe
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- 692
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well, I know it was a joke, but I think it was bad editing because it stuck out to me...because allthe characters afterwards were like,nodding in agreement...It didn't make it seem very joke-like...but oh well, probably just a timing thing...
oh, as for the whole song..I dont know if I can make it a sound file...I've got it on VHS...how can I get it from there to my computer without it sounding like crap??
Ol' Buddy Bert
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- Apr 15, 2002
- Messages
- 173
- Reaction score
- 2
Well, it seems as though everyone has weighed in one opinion or another but I'd still like to add some of my thoughts, respond to some opinions and piggy back some comments as well.
It's kind of wierd though as I think this is the first major Muppets project that I've had an opportunity to post about.
First thought: I really, really enjoyed watching this film. I laugh out loud and I laughed often. My sister and I grew up watching the Muppet Show during its original broadcast and we watched this movie together and had a great time.
On reflection however, like most of you I thought there were good points and not so good points to the film. I felt that the structure worked very, very well. It seems as though most people haven't noticed that the entire film is structured exactly like"It's a Wonderful Life". Not just the "I wish I'd never been born." sequence. I thought it worked well and understanding that I didn't mind the lenght of establishing the characters of Daniel and God.
However, that aside. It was great to see the Muppets in character again. Someone said earlier that the balance was just right and I completely agree with that. Kermit, Fozzie and Piggy were in the spotlight while the secondary characters played the necessary supporting roles. It seems in response to some of the casting problems JHC has been thrusting Gonzo, Rizzo and others into the primary story arc and that hasn't paid off as well as it could have. But it was great to see Kermit and Fozzie back as they were.
Fozzie in particular was probably the highlight for me. I didn't realize how much I missed him until he was back in the role that was established in the 1970's. Eric Jacobson did a wonderful job performing the character. Yes, the voice wasn't perfect but let's look at the performance as a whole. The character was completely there from inflections to body movement to the role that he played in the plot of the film. Excellent stuff (crocodile stuff aside).
It was nice to see Scooter and Janice again as well. Again, I thought Brian Henson captured the character very, very nicely and although the voice wasn't exactly like Richard's he captured the essence of the character, which, I think is even more difficult.
Piggy had her ups and downs. Although her voice sounded very nice, I think there were problems with the pacing of her material which I think someone mentioned earlier. There is a cadence and rythmn to her character from body language to speech patterns. I don't think it was quite there. I think she's a difficult character to pull off because, like Fozzie, there are so many small nuances that Frank (who's a marvelous actor) threw into the character. But, I think that the more Mr. Jacobson performs her the better it will be.
All this said, I became very sad when I realized that Dave Goelz was the only original performer of all these great characters (Bill Barretta and Brian Henson aside for there Muppets Tonight characters).
My main disappointment with the film came in the ending. It felt a little to quick and anticlimatic. I wonder if the carols at the end was cut for time purposes? I think it could have been a little bit grander in feel.
The nightclub scene seems to be one everyone's talking about...I thought it was a mixed bag, personally. I know it was supposed to be disturbing but still...perhaps the iron cage dancing was a little much. Though I loved Beaker and even Johnny behind the bar.
The criticism tht I want to address is the whether or not this film will age well. I know that the Muppets have always reference pop culture and have always included guest stars in their films.
While I have no problem with the guest stars I think the reliance on pop culture as humor will date the film. In our post-modern driven culture we tend to think humour is attained by including as many pop culture references as possible (ie Aladdin). But while it's funny to our culture as it is today, I don't think we'll look back on it with quite the same affection. If you watch TMM it's the story and the characters that drive the film and I think that contributes to its agelessness rather than topical humour.
I don't think this film will keep the same timeless quality. It was fun and I enjoyed it but I don't think I'll keep coming back to it like I have other projects the Muppets have been involved in.
But still, a great step in the right direction and one I really, really enjoyed experiencing.
That's about the size of it,
It's kind of wierd though as I think this is the first major Muppets project that I've had an opportunity to post about.
First thought: I really, really enjoyed watching this film. I laugh out loud and I laughed often. My sister and I grew up watching the Muppet Show during its original broadcast and we watched this movie together and had a great time.
On reflection however, like most of you I thought there were good points and not so good points to the film. I felt that the structure worked very, very well. It seems as though most people haven't noticed that the entire film is structured exactly like"It's a Wonderful Life". Not just the "I wish I'd never been born." sequence. I thought it worked well and understanding that I didn't mind the lenght of establishing the characters of Daniel and God.
However, that aside. It was great to see the Muppets in character again. Someone said earlier that the balance was just right and I completely agree with that. Kermit, Fozzie and Piggy were in the spotlight while the secondary characters played the necessary supporting roles. It seems in response to some of the casting problems JHC has been thrusting Gonzo, Rizzo and others into the primary story arc and that hasn't paid off as well as it could have. But it was great to see Kermit and Fozzie back as they were.
Fozzie in particular was probably the highlight for me. I didn't realize how much I missed him until he was back in the role that was established in the 1970's. Eric Jacobson did a wonderful job performing the character. Yes, the voice wasn't perfect but let's look at the performance as a whole. The character was completely there from inflections to body movement to the role that he played in the plot of the film. Excellent stuff (crocodile stuff aside).
It was nice to see Scooter and Janice again as well. Again, I thought Brian Henson captured the character very, very nicely and although the voice wasn't exactly like Richard's he captured the essence of the character, which, I think is even more difficult.
Piggy had her ups and downs. Although her voice sounded very nice, I think there were problems with the pacing of her material which I think someone mentioned earlier. There is a cadence and rythmn to her character from body language to speech patterns. I don't think it was quite there. I think she's a difficult character to pull off because, like Fozzie, there are so many small nuances that Frank (who's a marvelous actor) threw into the character. But, I think that the more Mr. Jacobson performs her the better it will be.
All this said, I became very sad when I realized that Dave Goelz was the only original performer of all these great characters (Bill Barretta and Brian Henson aside for there Muppets Tonight characters).
My main disappointment with the film came in the ending. It felt a little to quick and anticlimatic. I wonder if the carols at the end was cut for time purposes? I think it could have been a little bit grander in feel.
The nightclub scene seems to be one everyone's talking about...I thought it was a mixed bag, personally. I know it was supposed to be disturbing but still...perhaps the iron cage dancing was a little much. Though I loved Beaker and even Johnny behind the bar.
The criticism tht I want to address is the whether or not this film will age well. I know that the Muppets have always reference pop culture and have always included guest stars in their films.
While I have no problem with the guest stars I think the reliance on pop culture as humor will date the film. In our post-modern driven culture we tend to think humour is attained by including as many pop culture references as possible (ie Aladdin). But while it's funny to our culture as it is today, I don't think we'll look back on it with quite the same affection. If you watch TMM it's the story and the characters that drive the film and I think that contributes to its agelessness rather than topical humour.
I don't think this film will keep the same timeless quality. It was fun and I enjoyed it but I don't think I'll keep coming back to it like I have other projects the Muppets have been involved in.
But still, a great step in the right direction and one I really, really enjoyed experiencing.
That's about the size of it,
RobintheBrave
Active Member
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2002
- Messages
- 29
- Reaction score
- 6
Hi,
I probably should have posted this earlier, but wasn't able to until now. I have enjoyed reading all the posts up to this point, but wanted to clarify my point of view.
Although I am concerned about the Muppets becoming edgier, I didn't have a problem with the nightclub scene. As someone else said, it wasn't reality, it was a picture of a Kermitless world, which made the sight of Sam, Beaker, and perhaps Scooter amusing.
What I found more disturbing was Pepe's dialouge with Cussaak. I mean, there's a difference between Animal running around yelling "WO-MAN!" and Pepe talking about how hot and sexy he likes his ladies. When an actress implies "Not everything I say is a [sexual] inuenndo" in a Muppet movie, something is not right.
I don't say this just because my personal ethics go against it, this is also something I think Jim would have a problem with. For example, when the Muppets did their brief stint with "Saturday Night Live", part of the tension that developed between Jim and the SNL writers was that he didn't want to dirty the image that the Muppets had earned through Sesame Street.
I sincerely hope that Steve never had Kermit say "Porn is fine" because even if Jim did swear on the Arsenio Hall show, he would never have someone from Sesame Street say anything that might make a parent question their trust in the Muppets.
Getting back to the movie, as other people have said, this one did have its strengths and weaknesses, and IMO, one of its weaknesses stemmed from trying to be "edgier".
I hope no one thinks I'm just trying to stir up negative arguments, because I'm not. I'm just voicing a concern, like others have about the pacing and pop culture references.
Besides, the racy dialouge didn't detract too much from how much I enjoyed this movie overall. I loved all the spoofs and seeing and hearing overlooked characters was wonderful.
And, incidentally, I think it'd be cool to have a Grinch-coloured Fozzie figurine...
Someday maybe....
"Robin, Sir Robin, the Brave"
I probably should have posted this earlier, but wasn't able to until now. I have enjoyed reading all the posts up to this point, but wanted to clarify my point of view.
Although I am concerned about the Muppets becoming edgier, I didn't have a problem with the nightclub scene. As someone else said, it wasn't reality, it was a picture of a Kermitless world, which made the sight of Sam, Beaker, and perhaps Scooter amusing.
What I found more disturbing was Pepe's dialouge with Cussaak. I mean, there's a difference between Animal running around yelling "WO-MAN!" and Pepe talking about how hot and sexy he likes his ladies. When an actress implies "Not everything I say is a [sexual] inuenndo" in a Muppet movie, something is not right.
I don't say this just because my personal ethics go against it, this is also something I think Jim would have a problem with. For example, when the Muppets did their brief stint with "Saturday Night Live", part of the tension that developed between Jim and the SNL writers was that he didn't want to dirty the image that the Muppets had earned through Sesame Street.
I sincerely hope that Steve never had Kermit say "Porn is fine" because even if Jim did swear on the Arsenio Hall show, he would never have someone from Sesame Street say anything that might make a parent question their trust in the Muppets.
Getting back to the movie, as other people have said, this one did have its strengths and weaknesses, and IMO, one of its weaknesses stemmed from trying to be "edgier".
I hope no one thinks I'm just trying to stir up negative arguments, because I'm not. I'm just voicing a concern, like others have about the pacing and pop culture references.
Besides, the racy dialouge didn't detract too much from how much I enjoyed this movie overall. I loved all the spoofs and seeing and hearing overlooked characters was wonderful.
And, incidentally, I think it'd be cool to have a Grinch-coloured Fozzie figurine...
Someday maybe.... "Robin, Sir Robin, the Brave"
I'm sorry to come across as a stick in the mud, but I am getting more irritated reading the fan reactions to this film than I was during the film itself, which is saying something. I guess I would feel a lot better if the common thought was that this was sub-par Muppets. You're all acting like the Muppets are back. They are only pseudo-back.
1) If there is one thing I know about, it is Miss Piggy, because she is my favourite character and I have been obsessed for years. Anyone who can hardly tell the difference between Frank and Eric's voice just doesn't get it. Eric is WAY OFF on Piggy. The comic timing is NOT THERE. The singing voice is atrocious. I could not understand what she was saying half of the time- Frank always made her voice crystal clear. What Eric does is a decent imitation (key word: imitation) of Piggy. The kind of voice and manner that someone close to you might perform at work to impress people. The kind of voice I'd say "Hey, that's pretty good. Haha." Not the kind of voice that makes me think it's Miss Piggy. It is not Henson-caliber puppet take over.
2) IF THE MUPPETS DONT GET SOME REAL MUSIC BACK IN THE GAME SOON I AM GOING TO SCREAM. The Muppets without music (or only 1 attempt at a real song) is a travesty. But they need to keep away from the generic Disney-esque "Treasure Island" stuff. This means choosing the right writers. And they need to get someone with true soul back on board (Paul Williams did a perfectly acceptable job on Christmas Carol.)
3) The innuendos and sacrilige would not have bothered me so much, if the rest of this film had a heart and soul big enough to counteract the "light" immorality. Again, it only had a pseudo heart and soul- it was an imitation of other movies- it was bursting at the seams with references and jokes that are not funny to those who aren't glued to American television screens... and will not be funny years from now even to those who are. I wouldn't mind, for instance, that Scooter was cage dancing at a rave if it's sad absurdity was balanced by a film that expressed true goodness and emotion (especially considering its wasted Christmas theme.) The movie as a whole, was as empty as a tin can.
I feel like fans are yearning so badly for anything Muppet that they praise something far above what it deserves. My friend, who I watched the movie with, doesn't have strong feelings either way on the Muppets, but she likes them. When it was over she said "That was really disappointing, but I don't even think of this as the real Muppets. They should just call themselves something else now. They will never recapture what Jim Henson created."
I disagree. The magic is somewhere close, yet so far. I think it begins with a real script (not one that borrows from Dickens, Stevenson, or Capra.) One with LOTS of glorious new music. And one where Piggy speaks slower, clearer, and takes some vocal singing lessons. I'm all for humour- but very little of the new stuff makes me laugh. The last thing that really cracked me up was on the mediocre "Muppets From Space" when Piggy got the tar beaten out of her while she kept bouncing back, saying "Is that all ya got?" I want to love the Muppets like I always have. I really do. But it's gonna take a lot more than this to make this dreamer believe.
1) If there is one thing I know about, it is Miss Piggy, because she is my favourite character and I have been obsessed for years. Anyone who can hardly tell the difference between Frank and Eric's voice just doesn't get it. Eric is WAY OFF on Piggy. The comic timing is NOT THERE. The singing voice is atrocious. I could not understand what she was saying half of the time- Frank always made her voice crystal clear. What Eric does is a decent imitation (key word: imitation) of Piggy. The kind of voice and manner that someone close to you might perform at work to impress people. The kind of voice I'd say "Hey, that's pretty good. Haha." Not the kind of voice that makes me think it's Miss Piggy. It is not Henson-caliber puppet take over.
2) IF THE MUPPETS DONT GET SOME REAL MUSIC BACK IN THE GAME SOON I AM GOING TO SCREAM. The Muppets without music (or only 1 attempt at a real song) is a travesty. But they need to keep away from the generic Disney-esque "Treasure Island" stuff. This means choosing the right writers. And they need to get someone with true soul back on board (Paul Williams did a perfectly acceptable job on Christmas Carol.)
3) The innuendos and sacrilige would not have bothered me so much, if the rest of this film had a heart and soul big enough to counteract the "light" immorality. Again, it only had a pseudo heart and soul- it was an imitation of other movies- it was bursting at the seams with references and jokes that are not funny to those who aren't glued to American television screens... and will not be funny years from now even to those who are. I wouldn't mind, for instance, that Scooter was cage dancing at a rave if it's sad absurdity was balanced by a film that expressed true goodness and emotion (especially considering its wasted Christmas theme.) The movie as a whole, was as empty as a tin can.
I feel like fans are yearning so badly for anything Muppet that they praise something far above what it deserves. My friend, who I watched the movie with, doesn't have strong feelings either way on the Muppets, but she likes them. When it was over she said "That was really disappointing, but I don't even think of this as the real Muppets. They should just call themselves something else now. They will never recapture what Jim Henson created."
I disagree. The magic is somewhere close, yet so far. I think it begins with a real script (not one that borrows from Dickens, Stevenson, or Capra.) One with LOTS of glorious new music. And one where Piggy speaks slower, clearer, and takes some vocal singing lessons. I'm all for humour- but very little of the new stuff makes me laugh. The last thing that really cracked me up was on the mediocre "Muppets From Space" when Piggy got the tar beaten out of her while she kept bouncing back, saying "Is that all ya got?" I want to love the Muppets like I always have. I really do. But it's gonna take a lot more than this to make this dreamer believe.