JamieDenny
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Luke that would be great but I DONT HAVE SKY MOVIES PREMIERE
If i did then it wouldn't be a problem X
Jamie
If i did then it wouldn't be a problem XJamie
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Your Thoughts: It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas
- Thread starter Phillip
- Start date
Examine the Flipside...
I for one am very grateful that the muppet perfomers are attempting to keep the muppets alive! I read all these posts about the "voices being off", the "jokes being off", and the "magic lost", yet I can't get past the fact that at least we still have the muppets.
The flipside to this whole thing... everyone could have thrown in the towel when Jim Henson passed away, and we'd be left with just a memory of what was, and visions of what could have been. I am extremely grateful for everything that has been since and will be to come, even if things are a bit "off". In my opinion, nothing has gotten so bad that we should be saying, "why, oh, why did they allow that on tv/screen/print?"
In a season of Thanksgiving, I am thankful that there is a muppet future... a future that I would consider very, very bright. Maybe I should get out my shades?
I for one am very grateful that the muppet perfomers are attempting to keep the muppets alive! I read all these posts about the "voices being off", the "jokes being off", and the "magic lost", yet I can't get past the fact that at least we still have the muppets.
The flipside to this whole thing... everyone could have thrown in the towel when Jim Henson passed away, and we'd be left with just a memory of what was, and visions of what could have been. I am extremely grateful for everything that has been since and will be to come, even if things are a bit "off". In my opinion, nothing has gotten so bad that we should be saying, "why, oh, why did they allow that on tv/screen/print?"
In a season of Thanksgiving, I am thankful that there is a muppet future... a future that I would consider very, very bright. Maybe I should get out my shades?
towels
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Oh, I thought of what may be another nod to the past...
When Kermit is on TRL in the beginning...do you think he is referencing his Sam and Friends days?
This is echoed later when the alternate Honeydew calls him Lizard...
When Kermit is on TRL in the beginning...do you think he is referencing his Sam and Friends days?
This is echoed later when the alternate Honeydew calls him Lizard...
beaker
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Re: Examine the Flipside...
It' is a triumph of the Muppets to bring new performers. I would be shocked if every new filled character was dead on. It's evolution, and its good to see the Muppets comign back. It is my sincere hope that in a hundred, maybe a thousand year, or forever Kermit will still be performed by somebody, along with whatever Muppets will be around in the future. I dont look at the Muppets as some trendy nostalgia kitch like most people in this country...I see one of the greatest and most awe inspiring forms of entertainmetn in the last century...in my heart I know the Muppets will be around for an eternity. I would not want a world in where the Muppets and the love of JH didnt exist.
This movie should not be looked at as a timeless classic or something in a traditional movie since...it should be looked at as JHC saying to us: "Please look past what we had to do to appeal to NBC execs and the current crowds, we kno wyoull understand what with our current financial state...but this is to let all you fans know the Muppets are back and were thinking of you"
And yes...the Muppet future to me is looking brighter than any of us could imagine. I will not be held back in my choice of words or what I say anymore...I feel the true Muppet rennassiance is comign sometime in 2003. This will nto be another 1996 or 1999 ill fated restart, but something glorious I believe.
Btw, welcome aboard the zaniness Deadwall! Good to see such fervent passion abounds!
Oh to true. I believe wholeheartedly the 80's died in May of 1990. Not just because of JH, for a myriad of reasons. And then boom, Richard Hunt. So the first half of the 90's JHC was in a pretty disasterous state. Heck, I never even saw MCC or was interested much in post 1990 Muppets til I'd say maybe late xmas 1995 when things started looking promising again.Originally posted by Deadwall
The flipside to this whole thing... everyone could have thrown in the towel when Jim Henson passed away, and we'd be left with just a memory of what was, and visions of what could have been. I am extremely grateful for everything that has been since and will be to come, even if things are a bit "off". In my opinion, nothing has gotten so bad that we should be saying, "why, oh, why did they allow that on tv/screen/print?"
In a season of Thanksgiving, I am thankful that there is a muppet future... a future that I would consider very, very bright. Maybe I should get out my shades?
It' is a triumph of the Muppets to bring new performers. I would be shocked if every new filled character was dead on. It's evolution, and its good to see the Muppets comign back. It is my sincere hope that in a hundred, maybe a thousand year, or forever Kermit will still be performed by somebody, along with whatever Muppets will be around in the future. I dont look at the Muppets as some trendy nostalgia kitch like most people in this country...I see one of the greatest and most awe inspiring forms of entertainmetn in the last century...in my heart I know the Muppets will be around for an eternity. I would not want a world in where the Muppets and the love of JH didnt exist.
This movie should not be looked at as a timeless classic or something in a traditional movie since...it should be looked at as JHC saying to us: "Please look past what we had to do to appeal to NBC execs and the current crowds, we kno wyoull understand what with our current financial state...but this is to let all you fans know the Muppets are back and were thinking of you"
And yes...the Muppet future to me is looking brighter than any of us could imagine. I will not be held back in my choice of words or what I say anymore...I feel the true Muppet rennassiance is comign sometime in 2003. This will nto be another 1996 or 1999 ill fated restart, but something glorious I believe.
Btw, welcome aboard the zaniness Deadwall! Good to see such fervent passion abounds!
beaker
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Oh, good call! I totally missed that reference...btw I believe the show wasnt MTV's TRL with Carson Daily, but rather Last Call with Carson Daily on NBC late late. I wouldnt even know bout that show but sometimes I cant sleep and its 2:30 am int he morning ^_^
sarah_yzma
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WHEEEEEEEE
i think what's being said is dead on! the muppets could have just stopped when jim died but it didn't! that's what's so great! we get to see new people (yes i said GET not HAD) cause in my opinion if you don't like it hey turn it off! i think the acting was wonderful (except for robin, but he was seen what twice, so whatever) i loved the jokes! and i do think that jim would probably be o.k. with what's going on...yeah sure he could make it better! but he would like the general direction. we are finally seeing the secondary characters go back to the secondary place (except for pepe but i like him so that's cool) yes we all love rizzo, and those others, but they are secondary characters for a reason...and yes some of the jokes are time sensitive, but most of the visual ones are classics. everyone know who the grinch is and i am sure they will for a while! some people had a problem with the innuendos (haha on my spelling skills) but i was watching it with my little bro and he just though pepe wanted to cuddle or something, and he ALWAYS picks up on stuff like that! and yeah sure they might in 20 years but it's only 2002 let's get through this year first!-Sarah (just random thoughts from my insane brain)
i think what's being said is dead on! the muppets could have just stopped when jim died but it didn't! that's what's so great! we get to see new people (yes i said GET not HAD) cause in my opinion if you don't like it hey turn it off! i think the acting was wonderful (except for robin, but he was seen what twice, so whatever) i loved the jokes! and i do think that jim would probably be o.k. with what's going on...yeah sure he could make it better! but he would like the general direction. we are finally seeing the secondary characters go back to the secondary place (except for pepe but i like him so that's cool) yes we all love rizzo, and those others, but they are secondary characters for a reason...and yes some of the jokes are time sensitive, but most of the visual ones are classics. everyone know who the grinch is and i am sure they will for a while! some people had a problem with the innuendos (haha on my spelling skills) but i was watching it with my little bro and he just though pepe wanted to cuddle or something, and he ALWAYS picks up on stuff like that! and yeah sure they might in 20 years but it's only 2002 let's get through this year first!-Sarah (just random thoughts from my insane brain)
My thoughts..
Pop Culture Refference: Sure, there is stuff that can become dated, like the Crock Huntyer, and such, but Moulin Rouge, and The Grinch are pretty much for ever (Though the Animated Grinch is more popular, I am gald to see SOMEONE taking shots at the Movie Grinch!) Basically the Scrubs, Carson Daily, and Fear Factor Refferences were probably put there by the network, or someone trying to get it on that network (though they gave all of them a sour light..heh heh heh!) But the Muppets have parodied and used stuff that's pretty dated, as well. H. Ross Parrot, Disco Frog, and so forth. ANd this wasn't the first time Crock Hunter was given a Muppet style send up. Last year, I recall a Sesame Street episode in which there was a Letter hunter with a thick Austrailian Accent. Zoe and Elmo (Telly Maybe) also did this, and talked with Aussie accents, including a funny bit when Elmo said, "Crikey....What does Crikey mean?"
Raunchy Humor: I have to meet you half way. Though I did not really mind the innuendo (especially the part where Joan says, "Not everything I say is an innuendo") I thought that it was pretty funny. I think they were trying to capture a motre adult audience, possibly the ones that tend to blow off the Muppets for being juevenile (shows them..heh heh!) Though Kermit, Pepe or the like make me a tad squeamish when they bring up sex (though one of the first muppet specials waas called Sex and Violence) it's not a real biggie. In fact, what they did was more like Sesame Street compaired to what's on TV thee days. Don't make me bring it up again, where I live, Sesame Street is one channel awya (and at the same time as) Jerry Springer.
Joan Cusack: I liked her, but I reiterate, she wasn't as good a villain as Doc Hopper or Mel Brook in TMM, though she did a better job than Charles Grodin on GMC! Basically he was just a bad actor in that movie, and the only funny bit he did was, "Thieves aren't breathing down your neck!" Joan had a bit too much fun with the role, and came off more like a female Snidely WHiplash. I think she would have been great if she was a bit more subtle. I loved when they asked, "What happened to Mr. Bittermen?" and she looks really innocent and says, "He died!" If she were to be more like that in the rest of the film, she would have been REALLY darn funny.
Muppets, post Henson: Sure. Some people thinkl nothing but bad things about post Hesnon Muppets. I'm not saying everything they did before he died was all gold and glitter. Look at the Play along videos. They were good for what they were, and they were quite fun and had great ideas to them, but somehow it just slumped after that, and the videos, though interesting, did nopt have Muppet Charm either. Though I must say, Carol Spinney rocked as the cats in "Wow, You're a cartoonist!" But I still think that what Kermit said at the end of the Jim Henson Tribute holds true. "The show must go on, because that's the way the boss would want it." Think about it this way, Muppets post Henson was much better than Mickey post Disney! (Compaire House of Mouse with Muppets Tonight. Even if I hated MT, I'd rather watch that than HoM!)
Pop Culture Refference: Sure, there is stuff that can become dated, like the Crock Huntyer, and such, but Moulin Rouge, and The Grinch are pretty much for ever (Though the Animated Grinch is more popular, I am gald to see SOMEONE taking shots at the Movie Grinch!) Basically the Scrubs, Carson Daily, and Fear Factor Refferences were probably put there by the network, or someone trying to get it on that network (though they gave all of them a sour light..heh heh heh!) But the Muppets have parodied and used stuff that's pretty dated, as well. H. Ross Parrot, Disco Frog, and so forth. ANd this wasn't the first time Crock Hunter was given a Muppet style send up. Last year, I recall a Sesame Street episode in which there was a Letter hunter with a thick Austrailian Accent. Zoe and Elmo (Telly Maybe) also did this, and talked with Aussie accents, including a funny bit when Elmo said, "Crikey....What does Crikey mean?"
Raunchy Humor: I have to meet you half way. Though I did not really mind the innuendo (especially the part where Joan says, "Not everything I say is an innuendo") I thought that it was pretty funny. I think they were trying to capture a motre adult audience, possibly the ones that tend to blow off the Muppets for being juevenile (shows them..heh heh!) Though Kermit, Pepe or the like make me a tad squeamish when they bring up sex (though one of the first muppet specials waas called Sex and Violence) it's not a real biggie. In fact, what they did was more like Sesame Street compaired to what's on TV thee days. Don't make me bring it up again, where I live, Sesame Street is one channel awya (and at the same time as) Jerry Springer.
Joan Cusack: I liked her, but I reiterate, she wasn't as good a villain as Doc Hopper or Mel Brook in TMM, though she did a better job than Charles Grodin on GMC! Basically he was just a bad actor in that movie, and the only funny bit he did was, "Thieves aren't breathing down your neck!" Joan had a bit too much fun with the role, and came off more like a female Snidely WHiplash. I think she would have been great if she was a bit more subtle. I loved when they asked, "What happened to Mr. Bittermen?" and she looks really innocent and says, "He died!" If she were to be more like that in the rest of the film, she would have been REALLY darn funny.
Muppets, post Henson: Sure. Some people thinkl nothing but bad things about post Hesnon Muppets. I'm not saying everything they did before he died was all gold and glitter. Look at the Play along videos. They were good for what they were, and they were quite fun and had great ideas to them, but somehow it just slumped after that, and the videos, though interesting, did nopt have Muppet Charm either. Though I must say, Carol Spinney rocked as the cats in "Wow, You're a cartoonist!" But I still think that what Kermit said at the end of the Jim Henson Tribute holds true. "The show must go on, because that's the way the boss would want it." Think about it this way, Muppets post Henson was much better than Mickey post Disney! (Compaire House of Mouse with Muppets Tonight. Even if I hated MT, I'd rather watch that than HoM!)
WOMAN! WOMAN!
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Whoops! I confused you with someone else.
"Very gay." That sounds like "a little pregnant."
The Film Direction of the New Muppet Films...
Hi board,
I never post, so "hi" to all you regulars. I'm a filmmaker and a huge fan of the Muppets. I enjoyed the new Christmas tv film, and aside from being a bit weirded out by the voices (I didn't know they replaced Frank and that Brian was doing Scooter, etc.), I thought it was decent. However, I think I've identified what was "off" about the film for me ( no, it wasn't the rave sequence), and it's the actual film direction. I really, really want Brian Henson to start directing the Muppet films again. Like them or not, "Christmas Carol" and "Treasure Island" are amazingly directed films. Flat out, he is a great director. The direction in "Muppets From Space" and the new film is OK, but not of the caliber found in "The Dark Crystal" or even "Muppets Take Manhattan" (both directed by Oz..at least in part). Take "Kermit's Swamp Years" for example. I know the budget wasn't huge, but to settle for the effect in the beginning when Croaker (I think) does a flip (terrible, terrible CG) is unnacceptable. Heck, if Frank is so big on directing now that he can't puppeteer, maybe he'd like to direct the ultimate Muppet film in a couple years. I know I'm throwing out random thoughts, but I feel that an experienced, fairly "name" director with solid chops (such as pacing, composition, etc.) would do wonders for how the public and especially the fans receive these films.
Don't get me wrong, I'm thoroughly pleased that I even have a new Muppet film to watch and I'll love them no matter what, but at this point I will admit that I'm quite nostalgic for the glory days. Thanks for listening, board (or should I say "bored"?).
Peace,
N
P.S. I got a serious kick out of the recycled "Jack Frost" animatronic puppet. It reminded me of the Fraggle and Dinosaurs days, when every puppet was reused about sixty times! The Muppets really are back!! Now where's Mudbunny!?!?
Hi board,
I never post, so "hi" to all you regulars. I'm a filmmaker and a huge fan of the Muppets. I enjoyed the new Christmas tv film, and aside from being a bit weirded out by the voices (I didn't know they replaced Frank and that Brian was doing Scooter, etc.), I thought it was decent. However, I think I've identified what was "off" about the film for me ( no, it wasn't the rave sequence), and it's the actual film direction. I really, really want Brian Henson to start directing the Muppet films again. Like them or not, "Christmas Carol" and "Treasure Island" are amazingly directed films. Flat out, he is a great director. The direction in "Muppets From Space" and the new film is OK, but not of the caliber found in "The Dark Crystal" or even "Muppets Take Manhattan" (both directed by Oz..at least in part). Take "Kermit's Swamp Years" for example. I know the budget wasn't huge, but to settle for the effect in the beginning when Croaker (I think) does a flip (terrible, terrible CG) is unnacceptable. Heck, if Frank is so big on directing now that he can't puppeteer, maybe he'd like to direct the ultimate Muppet film in a couple years. I know I'm throwing out random thoughts, but I feel that an experienced, fairly "name" director with solid chops (such as pacing, composition, etc.) would do wonders for how the public and especially the fans receive these films.
Don't get me wrong, I'm thoroughly pleased that I even have a new Muppet film to watch and I'll love them no matter what, but at this point I will admit that I'm quite nostalgic for the glory days. Thanks for listening, board (or should I say "bored"?).
Peace,
N
P.S. I got a serious kick out of the recycled "Jack Frost" animatronic puppet. It reminded me of the Fraggle and Dinosaurs days, when every puppet was reused about sixty times! The Muppets really are back!! Now where's Mudbunny!?!?
beaker
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Re: The Film Direction of the New Muppet Films...
Yeah you touch upon a few things that make sense. We focused so much on voices being off, crude inuendo, bad writing...when its staring us right in the face: The pacing was baaaaaad.
Now Ive met Kirk. Kirk freaking rocks. Anyone who can take a Vucan grip from Spock rocks. That said, I think the editing room could have played a better job...yet I have to give mad props to Thatcher for some of the scenes...the Moulin rouge scene was beautifully directed.
But I agree, the next Muppet film needs a great director.
You said "Heck, if Frank is so big on directing now that he can't puppeteer, maybe he'd like to direct the ultimate Muppet film in a couple years", and I cannot express how much I echo that sentiment...how I so wish they can make that dreamed about ultimate Muppet film...if JHC decides to make that Halloween Hotel or Cheapest Muppet Movie crud I think a lot of us would be very saddened and greatly displeased. Yes, it is more than great to see the Muppets back...but they and the vision of JH do not deserve some of the scripts JHC has been optioning.
First off welcome!
Yeah you touch upon a few things that make sense. We focused so much on voices being off, crude inuendo, bad writing...when its staring us right in the face: The pacing was baaaaaad.
Now Ive met Kirk. Kirk freaking rocks. Anyone who can take a Vucan grip from Spock rocks. That said, I think the editing room could have played a better job...yet I have to give mad props to Thatcher for some of the scenes...the Moulin rouge scene was beautifully directed.
But I agree, the next Muppet film needs a great director.
You said "Heck, if Frank is so big on directing now that he can't puppeteer, maybe he'd like to direct the ultimate Muppet film in a couple years", and I cannot express how much I echo that sentiment...how I so wish they can make that dreamed about ultimate Muppet film...if JHC decides to make that Halloween Hotel or Cheapest Muppet Movie crud I think a lot of us would be very saddened and greatly displeased. Yes, it is more than great to see the Muppets back...but they and the vision of JH do not deserve some of the scripts JHC has been optioning.