Why did MFS and EIG bomb so bad?

[dwayne1115]

Up for an Emmy! Oooh! (Though I'd settle for a Jackie or a Joggy)

ha ha you crack me up! Anyone got any glue?


Sure MFS had it's enternal problems and I would love to have been able to read Jerry Juills script I know it would have been gold.



To foacs a movie on Elmo was a good idea, but it should have given him more depth and emotion.

 

[rexcrk]

I think Muppets From Space is fantastic! Maybe not as good as the other theatrical movies, but still very enjoyable. I don't have a problem with any of the "guest appearances", because, to be honest, nearly all of the ones in the first three Muppet movies are actors I'm not familiar with (being born in 1988 ), most of them I know BECAUSE they were in the muppet movies lol.

 

[Drtooth]

I do think opening the picture with F Murray Abraham was a timeless and classy touch.

Once the Muppets hit the living room to watch UFO Mania Live, the film quickly fell downhill (or Tim Hill as I like to think of it) for this classic fan. I actually cried after seeing the film in the theaters. It was that bad at that moment. No film has crushed my spirit and hopes like MFS did that day. I thought Tim Hill had killed the Muppets for years to come...and, well, I was kind of right. It's been a long road back. It just wasn't good filmmaking.

I wonder what was so bad with the other director that he lacked "vision" that they hired someone whose vision was to make everything look as mundane and generic as possible? Honestly, that second director ruined a potentially amazing movie. I still really love the film, but there is so so much wrong with it that Joey Mazzarino vented about on Tough Pigs. Not only did he turn the film into visual mediocre genericness (his signature move!) he pulled out everything that potentially made the film a million times better. The problem is if you focus on what the film could have been, you may never look at it in a good light again.

But I feel the same way about Muppet Oz as you felt about MFS... that one was the Muppet equivalent of Batman and Robin. It was a rushed disasterpiece with poor casting and ugly, ugly camera work. VMX plays better as a Christmas special, but it still looks semi-theatrical. Oz felt like it was filmed by the 1960's Batman crew.

As for EIG... it really should have been a direct to video/telefilm. Again, on paper the idea of making an Elmo movie when Elmo dolls were flying off the shelves was brilliant. But releasing it at an odd time, and relying on a 4 and under age group (an age group that should never be taken to the theaters... and I have the bad experience from Bolt to prove it) didn't help matters. I think EIG is a fine movie, and one of the best things I've seen Elmo in, since you actually get to explore his character, not hear him talking about how Birthday cakes don't use crayons to write letters to mommy. It pales in comparison to FTB, which was just a better looking and feeling film altogether, but it was definitely an amazing pleasant surprise. Though, it may just play better on TV (crappy pan and scan ruining the "welcome to Grouchland" number aside).

 

[CensoredAlso]

It's the latest release and doesn't look as dated (or have a period-look) as previous releases. That's likely why it's pushed the most. That and it's not a Disney release. It's Sony like MTM (the second most pushed Muppet film these days).

That could be, yeah. It's amazing how a movie that didn't do well gets better treatment than an older film that did. This obsession the culture has with replacing the old with the new, even when the new is somewhat inferior, is quite disturbing.

 

[minor muppetz]

As for EIG... it really should have been a direct to video/telefilm. Again, on paper the idea of making an Elmo movie when Elmo dolls were flying off the shelves was brilliant. But releasing it at an odd time, and relying on a 4 and under age group (an age group that should never be taken to the theaters... and I have the bad experience from Bolt to prove it) didn't help matters.

You know what? Elmo in Grouchland was released in theaters around october 1, 1999, and was released on video the week before christmas of that year. So either it did really poorly in theaters leading to a video release (which probably doesn't make much sense) or it was planned to be out in theaters for only a few short months before the video release.

Back in fall 1998, sometime afte rit was announced, I had thought about how I wanted Elmo to enter Grouchland. Also at that time I had rented Follow That Bird, after not seeing it for four years, and was really amazed by how the street looked, that we cold see all the angles, and liked the really large crowd scenes on the street. I was hoping for this kind of quality in the film.

Although at first I figured he'd enter grouchland the way he ended up getting there, I quickly had a thought on what'd be better: Have Elmo somehow fall and get locked into Bruno's garbage truck (I noticed that he hadn't been on the show for years, but at the time didn't think about the possibility of the costume being too worn out, or the fact that Henson might not rebuild every minor character), which in turn would deliver the trash not to the city dump but to Grouchland. And Elmo would soon become a prisioner there, which would get reported on the news by Kermit (I was dispointed that he was excluded, minus the Jim Henson Pictures logo).

While the set was rebuilt and we did get to see a part of the street not normally seen (the laundrymat across from 123 Sesame Street), it seems that we still see pretty much just the usual stuff seen on the show.

And I was hoping for the gang to leave Sesame Street in different vehicles, with their going-away scene being like the one in FTB. Or, if not seperate cars, maybe a big RV, big enough for Big Bird and Snuffy to fit in.

And it's disapointing that none of the characters closest to Oscar -- Grundgetta, Slimey, Irvine, Fluffy, the aforementioned Bruno -- appear in the movie at all.

 

[antsamthompson9]

Jonah: A VeggieTales Movie made $25.8 million.quote]
I thank more people like VeggieTales than Sesame Street because it's not as kiddy. Heck, I'm a fan of VeggieTales myself.

 

[BobThePizzaBoy]

I thank more people like VeggieTales than Sesame Street because it's not as kiddy. Heck, I'm a fan of VeggieTales myself.

I'll admit I'm a closeted VeggieTales fan myself but here's the thing: By the time Jonah came out, VeggieTales was well past it's peak in the huge popularity the franchise had the late 90's (I know by the time Jonah came out, I was past my VeggieTales stage and had moved on to The Simpsons and Looney Tunes) and considering Sesame Street has remained cosistantly popular for 40 years, I'd think Elmo in Grouchland would manage to pull just even a little bit more money than Jonah did.

 

[antsamthompson9]

I'll admit I'm a closeted VeggieTales fan myself but here's the thing: By the time Jonah came out, VeggieTales was well past it's peak in the huge popularity the franchise had the late 90's (I know by the time Jonah came out, I was past my VeggieTales stage and had moved on to The Simpsons and Looney Tunes) and considering Sesame Street has remained cosistantly popular for 40 years, I'd think Elmo in Grouchland would manage to pull just even a little bit more money than Jonah did.

Okay, I see what you're saying.

 

[beaker]

While I don't feel the Muppets are really underground, I do feel that between Jim Henson's passing until recently they haven't had a very solid promotional effort that worked. Jim was the driving force that wouldn't quit. Nobody else has had that stamina, spirit and vision since then. There's been too much devaluing and second guessing.

Honestly, I have never ever come across any Muppet fan in real life or online outside of this site or at Muppetfest. Ive had people say "oh hey, cool Beaker shirt" or "right on man, cool Muppet shirt"...or just in random conversations "oh yeah, I loved those guys...who were the two old guys names?"

But actual Muppet fans/followers/collectors? Not in three decades of being a rabid JH/Muppety fan.

Ive met a tons of Star Trek, Firefly/Whedon, Disney, Battlestar Galactica, Star Wars, Looney Tunes, etc collectors and fans.

But as to what you were saying, yeah since 1990 there's been a lot of false starts and good leads, but a lot of misconnections.

The first few minutes of MFS were great, but it fell apart after that. It's what happens when a company hires a novice director who is easily pliable to a studio's notes. They provide a good trailer and title sequence, but don't really know what to do with the rest...like the actual movie. The original director seemed to have a lot of ideas that were dismissed for being too interesting.

EXACTLY my thoughts. Though I take it for what its worth now, I at least like the cinematography in some parts. But the late 90's era c level star cameos seem really embarassing.

I attribute the good scenes to the talented performers and traces of writers that had been dismissed by lesser talents. MFS was a mess. It does have some moments and scenes, but it's not a compelling film. It was like watching paint dry - but with Muppets. Sure, Muppets make everything better, but why didn't Tim Hill want to give them something better to do? Without Pepe that film would have almost been unwatchable.

I dont know about paint drying, but I'd agree on the other points. Man I was so excited...while everyone was abuzz with Phantom Menace and American Pie, for me it was seeing MFS on opening day. But by the time it delved into the government conspiracy plot and all that, I just began to lose interest.
Pepe definitely carries a lot of the film.

I find...when I rewatch it, I mostly just rewatch the first 15 minutes
(Elmo In Grouchland I find utterly unwatchable)

 

[Drtooth]

You know what? Elmo in Grouchland was released in theaters around october 1, 1999, and was released on video the week before christmas of that year. So either it did really poorly in theaters leading to a video release (which probably doesn't make much sense) or it was planned to be out in theaters for only a few short months before the video release.

Man... and Sony had a good relationship with Sesame Workshop? Even after that? Seems they made the movie low budget and rushed just so it could be sold as a Christmas present DVD. And they didn't even put it in actual theatrical widescreen either. Makes me wonder, would it have been a much better film had they had time and money and weren't thinking about DVD sales 2 months later.