Why did MFS and EIG bomb so bad?

[frogboy4]

Man... and Sony had a good relationship with Sesame Workshop? Even after that? Seems they made the movie low budget and rushed just so it could be sold as a Christmas present DVD. And they didn't even put it in actual theatrical widescreen either. Makes me wonder, would it have been a much better film had they had time and money and weren't thinking about DVD sales 2 months later.

It cost 26M to make, several million to promote yet only made 11M at the box office and dropped so low that theaters just couldn't justify keeping it around anymore. I'm sure it was a big hit on video, but that's another medium entirely. Theatrical films are different animals than home video entertainment. I always measure entertainment as it was seen in its intended medium. However, I didn't get to catch EIG in theaters. I actually did plan on seeing it, even with my reservations.

There's a great Sesame movie yet to be made. It just needs to focus on the magic the street and characters already have. Give people a reason to pay to see SS. I wonder if the Fraggle movie will create a how-to guide for this sort of thing? I hope so.

 

[minor muppetz]

I still see that the photography and fashion in MFS more closely resemble modern life than (*either dated or period-looking) films like TMM, MTM, GMC, MCC and MTI. It's more approachable for a wider audience on the cosmetic level and that's one reason why it makes the rounds more often. It did have that funky 70s theme, but that was mainly the music. [/COLOR]

You know, I was thinking, and it seems to me that MTM is really the onylk one where characters where fashion specific to the time it was made. The outfits in TMM seem timeless to me, and in GMC the various characters look like they are dressed in 1950s/ 1960s fashions despite being made in 1981.

 

[Drtooth]

It cost 26M to make, several million to promote yet only made 11M at the box office and dropped so low that theaters just couldn't justify keeping it around anymore. I'm sure it was a big hit on video, but that's another medium entirely.

That's clearly the case, but I really don't discount minor muppet's theory. Somehow, Elmo in Grouchland seemed to be treated like Transformers the movie (no... not the Michael Bay one) and Rainbow Bright the movie. A merchandising product/ commercial and not an actual film. While it would have been eaten alive during the summer months, had it been given sometime during spring break or February vacation, it would have probably garnered a bigger audience. Not hugely much bigger, mind you... seems Sony wanted to rush this movie in and out of theaters for the more profitable home video market. Something that I wouldn't have considered had minor muppets didn't make that point. Somehow, the studio seemed to not give a crap about it, saying it was a toy commercial/tie in, and not an SS film.

There's a great Sesame movie yet to be made. It just needs to focus on the magic the street and characters already have. Give people a reason to pay to see SS. I wonder if the Fraggle movie will create a how-to guide for this sort of thing? I hope so.

I wanna see a Sesame movie at the very least in the same style as FTB. It looked pretty low budget, but it actually looked REAL. Sesame looked like the busy street it was meant to be (unlike Mos Eisley ) and you really believed that Big Bird was actually out there in the real world going on an adventure... while EIG looked like Elmo was on a bright and flashy studio sound stage. Fake. If a new SS movie were to be made, I want most of it filmed on location somewhere... Canada? I don't care. And an SS movie would have to have a lot more motivation behind it than "popular star of popular series being popular toyline" for it to work. It would need a well thought out, well timed script. EIG screams rushed. It wants to be better than it is, and I really like the fact we get Elmo as a character, not a product... emoting for a change... but I think the puppeteers and regulars carry the film. And there was NO CALL for Elmo to break the fourth wall.

 

[Sgt Floyd]

I actually enjoyed muppets from space. I can see why people wouldnt like it though. It should have been either a direct to video release or a made for tv movie.

While I enjoyed it, I do agree it was lacking in muppetiness. I mean, I have no problem watching it, its not torture to me. Honestly I thought GMC was worse, its my least favorite muppet movie, but thats besides the point...

 

[Princeton]

I actually enjoyed muppets from space. I can see why people wouldnt like it though. It should have been either a direct to video release or a made for tv movie.

While I enjoyed it, I do agree it was lacking in muppetiness. I mean, I have no problem watching it, its not torture to me. Honestly I thought GMC was worse, its my least favorite muppet movie, but thats besides the point...

Why aren't we better friends?

And to whoever said that the cameos in MFS were dated, I direct you towards the Ed Koch cameo in MTM. The filmmakers must have known that he wouldn't be mayor forever, and considering what a godawful mayor he was, why promote him by including him in the film?

 

[BobThePizzaBoy]

And to whoever said that the cameos in MFS were dated, I direct you towards the Ed Koch cameo in MTM. The filmmakers must have known that he wouldn't be mayor forever, and considering what a godawful mayor he was, why promote him by including him in the film?

That might have been part of the joke, notice Koch's line is already kind of shows him as dumbfounded. But I can only imagine what a big reaction that scene got in theaters in 1984. And hey, it's not like jokes in other movies have aged worse (Try watching Shrek now).

 

[frogboy4]

How the Cameos Stack Up in Muppet Films

The Jim-era films used to have a sprinkling of all types of stars and character actors. He could inspire the best to get involved. This is one heck of a list, an is in many ways unfair to the new trilogy because nobody can live up to this legacy. Except for Hollywood Hulk Hogan.

(I'm sure to have missed some)

Clasic Trilogy:

Character actors of varied popularity:
Ausin Pendelton
Charles Durning
Carol Kane
Paul Williams
Charles Grodin
Diana Rigg
Frances Bergen
James Coburn
Dabney Coleman

Classic TV & Film Icons
Edgar Bergen
*Milton Berle
*Bob Hope
*Orson Welles
*Peter Ustinov
*Peter Falk
*Art Carney
James Coco

Popular Stars of the Time (most are icons now)
*Mel Brooks
*Dom DeLuise
Elliott Gould
*Madeline Kahn
*Cloris Leachman
*Steve Martin
*Richard Pryor
Telly Savalas
*John Cleese
*Joan Rivers
*Brooke Shields

Stage Celebrities & Personalities of New York
Gregory Hines
Linda Lavin
*Liza Minneli
Film Director - John Landis
Restaurateur - Vincent Sardi Jr.
Mayor Edward I. Koch


Newer Triogy:

Top Stars
*Michael Caine
*Tim Curry

Character Actors
*F. Murray Abraham ^
*Jennifer Saunders
*Jeffrey Tambor ^
Rob Schneider ^
Josh Charles ^
Ray Liotta ^
David Arquette ^
*Andie MacDowell ^
*Kathy Griffin ^
*Billy Connolly
*Katie Holmes ^
Joshua Jackson ^
Hulk Hogan ^

Lesser-Known Character Actors
Meredith Braun
Steven Mackintosh
Robin Weaver
Kevin Bishop


* = still should be widely known (and some quite respected)
^ = Muppets From Space

Amazingly the first two new-trilogy Muppet films were not heavy in cameos, but I feel it's better to have sparce representation than poor representation. I just don't think there's much comparison. Just one Muppet and motion picture fan's opinion.

 

[D'Snowth]

Once again, I digress, I feel that Muppets From Space is the best of the modern-day Muppet movies going.

Would it be different if Jim were still alive? Of course, but I think there was still quite a bit of the original magic left over when they made this movie; not to mention we've been owed a backstory for Gonzo for the longest time anyway (even though in a rare interview, Jim said Gonzo was meant to be a simple off-beat monster character). After this is when Muppet movies started going downhill - Kermit's Swamp Years was good as the TV/DVD movie it was, but would it work well in theaters? Probably not. It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie was hardly very merry at all, for a Muppet movie it was very dark and depressing, and probably the worst movie they've ever done. Did they bounce back for The Muppets' Wizard of Oz? They did, but not by much - another typical classic tale retold with a Muppety twist formula, just with a bigger twist. Will the next Muppet movie be what we're hoping for? Of course not, because Disney IS going to shelf it... it's inevidable. It was a miracle they actually went ahead with the Letters to Santa special.

The reason The Adventures of Elmo in Grouchland bombed is because people don't like Elmo. It's as simple as that. But that makes me wonder... would modern Muppet movies have done better without Pepe? I LIKE Pepe like a lot of people, but sometimes I think of him as like the Elmo of the non-Sesame Muppets.

 

[frogboy4]

Will the next Muppet movie be what we're hoping for? Of course not, because Disney IS going to shelf it... it's inevidable. It was a miracle they actually went ahead with the Letters to Santa special.

Welcome back, Snowth. What's happening with the next Muppet theatrical film is anyone's guess, but they are now shooting the Muppet Halloween special for this year. So nothing's getting shelved. Specials are probably the best way to start. Why do you think Disney's axing the Muppets? Maybe that will happen down the line (I hope not) but we are seeing the "push" the NY Times article promised last year.

 

[Traveling Matt]

I admit that I was just flat out biased and favored a complete dismissal of the Muppets after Jim died because I believed they could never come close again to that level so why even bother.

I think that’s the way most people felt. And those who didn’t came around to that conclusion by 1999.

MFS does have some good playback today, but I remember being very underwhelmed when I saw it in theaters. It seemed like a transition film at the time and still does. I think the absence of Jerry Juhl was indeed significant, but I also think many other compounding elements had facilitated change by that point too. They were just different. And, for me personally, it was the point where the Muppets moved sharply away from what they had been before.

Oh, and GMC is my favorite Muppet film too. So that’s two votes.