Why did MFS and EIG bomb so bad?

[frogboy4]

While I don't feel the Muppets are really underground, I do feel that between Jim Henson's passing until recently they haven't had a very solid promotional effort that worked. Jim was the driving force that wouldn't quit. Nobody else has had that stamina, spirit and vision since then. There's been too much devaluing and second guessing.

The first few minutes of MFS were great, but it fell apart after that. It's what happens when a company hires a novice director who is easily pliable to a studio's notes. They provide a good trailer and title sequence, but don't really know what to do with the rest...like the actual movie. The original director seemed to have a lot of ideas that were dismissed for being too interesting.

I attribute the good scenes to the talented performers and traces of writers that had been dismissed by lesser talents. MFS was a mess. It does have some moments and scenes, but it's not a compelling film. It was like watching paint dry - but with Muppets. Sure, Muppets make everything better, but why didn't Tim Hill want to give them something better to do? Without Pepe that film would have almost been unwatchable.

 

[TML]

Muppet Family Christmas
Muppets Take Manhattan
Muppet Movie
Muppets @ Walt Disney World
Muppets Remember Jim Henson
Muppets From Space
MuppetVision 3D
A Very Mery Muppet Christmas
Great Muppet Caper
Letters To Santa
Emmet Otter's Jugband
Muppets Treasure Island
Muppet Christmas Carol
Kermit's Swamp Years

Are you kidding me? Why is the Great Muppet Caper so low on your list? Am I the ONLY person who thinks that is the best Muppet film of them all? The songs are top notch, the best of all the movies. The jokes are fast and funny, spot on. The reoccuring lame jokes like, "what color are their hands now" and the lightbulb falling out are pure Muppets. The opening number, the number at the supper club and Piggy's under water number! Plus they put a great moment in there for practically every Muppet Show character and they don't feel forced. And then, there is the fantastic bike riding scene! The Muppets were never more revolutionary or better on film. TGMC is, in my opinion, the best of em all. It seems I'm so alone on this.

 

[Jivepuppet]

Love MFS!

I wrote a whole article on my blog a couple weeks ago about this movie...
And some ideas as to why it failed...
Here's the link

 

[Drtooth]

I think the real reason MFS royally bombed is because Muppets are underground, and its been that way since the 90's. Muppet fans seem more underground and niche than even say Firefly or Henson's own Farscape brand in some respects(certainly in an online presence)

I blame it on the fact it was a very competitive summer, with EVERYONE trying to compete with Phantom Menace... I didn't get to see that film until October. I can remember most of the movies from that year, all of them used "All Star" in the sound track, by the way.... but I can't remember a single one being as big a hit as Star Wars... or even in the running. There were a lot of flops like Mystery Men, Inspector Gadget (which, frankly, I didn't understand the point of them making at that point... the people who were old enough to remember it didn't have kids, and the kids the movie was made for didn't have a clue who he was... least I got a great bean bag Gadget and Brain out of it), and Dudley Do-Right which was a directionless, miscast (except for Inspector Fenwick and Snidley) mess.


Had it come out, let's say winter vactation (Febuary/March) it would have at least got a wider school children audience. Plus, if they hyped the movie up at all, maybe more people would have been open to it. I saw it at a bargain theater, mind you, and it was a packed house both times I saw it.

As for EIG, I'm agreeing with Frogboy... not to mention the fact that it was a brilliant idea on paper. I mean, Elmo-mania was sweeping the country and all... but his audience is mainly comprised of 23 year olds... have you ever seen a three year old at the movies? You mean, you're taking a child that young to the movies? Can't be done. Why it wasn't a DTV thing is beyond me.

 

[Vic Romano]

Wow. You know I've read the opinions on MFS a thousand times on here, and I am always so blown away how much fans dislike this movie. I admit that I was just flat out biased and favored a complete dismissal of the Muppets after Jim died because I believed they could never come close again to that level so why even bother.

I happened to really enjoy MFS, but I can see and appreciate now why most fans did not. It seems it's a frustrating movie because in a way, it did temporarily smudge the Muppets and make everyone question their appeal. But I always say the reason I enjoyed it so much was because the Muppets went back to playing themselves instead of playing other characters.

It did lack a healthy amount of that Muppet zaniness, although I always thought the talking sandwich was classic stuff. I guess if I had a major complaint about it, it would be that for a movie where Gonzo was the star, it should have been a LOT sillier and weirder.

 

[minor muppetz]

At the time they came out I was really excited, and saw them as really great movies, and were higher on my list of favorite Muppet and Sesame Street productions.

For Muppets From Space, it felt like a big deal at the time, since it was the first Muppet movie since Jim's death where the Muppets played themselves, and it was the first Muppet movie since Muppets Tonight, so it was cool seeing which Muppets Tonight characters were included (though I still wish Seymour was a part of it).

Also, Muppets Tonight had a bigger focus on new characters than old characters, so it was a treat seeing so many classic characters in the film. It also felt like a big deal because Rowlf, Dr. Teeth, and Scooter were all given dialogue, not to mention that it was Scooter's first on-screen appearance following Richard Hunt's death. Of course, Rowlf and Dr. Teeth have had brief dialogue prior to the film, though I was unaware that Dr. Teeth was recast for Days of Swine and Roses. Of course, since then these characters and other Henson/ Hunt characters have been given dialogue in other, better productions. Though at times it still feels like a big deal whenever Rowlf, Scooter, Dr. Teeth, or Janice (and now that list includes Jerry Nelson's characters, to a lesser extent) have lines.

Of course, at the time I was and still am disapointed on the lack of Muppet musicial numbers (I was hoping for the mayhem to perform), as well as the revelation of what Gonzo is (even though they weren't that specific).

As for Elmo in Grouchland, I was excited. Sesame Street only had one other movie (which was the better of the two), so it was sort of a big deal. I didn't get to see it until it came out on video (I didn't have a drivers license at the time), and I also thought it was good at the time, despite the lack of so many characters. I was hoping for the street scenes to look more like the ones in FTB (I may explain on this later).

 

[minor muppetz]

It's the latest release and doesn't look as dated (or have a period-look) as previous releases. That's likely why it's pushed the most.

I disagree. I feel like it's the most dated. The others (where they play themselves) have a timeless look and feel, while this one seems more contemporary (should I count MCC or MTI as being dated? They were supposed to take place in the past).

 

[frogboy4]

I disagree. I feel like it's the most dated. The others (where they play themselves) have a timeless look and feel, while this one seems more contemporary (should I count MCC or MTI as being dated? They were supposed to take place in the past).

I still see that the photography and fashion in MFS more closely resemble modern life than (*either dated or period-looking) films like TMM, MTM, GMC, MCC and MTI. It's more approachable for a wider audience on the cosmetic level and that's one reason why it makes the rounds more often. It did have that funky 70s theme, but that was mainly the music.

The cameos were dated and strange when it was released - even more so now. The Muppets used to get the best and brightest, but not this time out. The only star in MFS to be more popular now than at the time is Kathy Griffen. Strange, huh? I do think opening the picture with F Murray Abraham was a timeless and classy touch.

Once the Muppets hit the living room to watch UFO Mania Live, the film quickly fell downhill (or Tim Hill as I like to think of it) for this classic fan. I actually cried after seeing the film in the theaters. It was that bad at that moment. No film has crushed my spirit and hopes like MFS did that day. I thought Tim Hill had killed the Muppets for years to come...and, well, I was kind of right. It's been a long road back. It just wasn't good filmmaking.

I still watch scenes from time to time, and it has a few good moments, but the magic left MFS when Jerry Juhl did. He is/was the voice of the Muppets. Sony and Henson did the Muppets a disservice the day they let him walk away from the project. I could go into countless details, but really that’s the gist of what I feel is wrong with the picture. After I discovered what had happened the rest of it made sense to me.

Jim was the heart of the Muppets, Jerry was the voice and Frank was the key performer and none were present on the set of MFS. Dave Goelz and Bill Barretta did an amazing job as always and are the only reasons I can watch MFS. That and Scooter.

 

[dwayne1115]

Why dwell on the past? We have some great news out from Hollywood about another Muppet production. Lets do like our new president and not dwell on the past and look ahead. Yes both MFS and EIG had there problems from day one, but look where the Muppets are now in just this past year we have won a Webby and now We are up for an Emmy!
I think the dark ages of the Muppets are starting to end and we are now starting to see them come back, and this time they are back for good!

 

[Beauregard]

Up for an Emmy! Oooh! (Though I'd settle for a Jackie or a Joggy)