Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie

[beaker]

Oh boy...

Boy do I have my platter full...

*I'm not even gonna comment on the Whoopi thing. I thought it was brave and very tatseful what JHC did, my only complaint was that those scenes kind of slowed the pace down.

*Yes, there are apparently gay muppets. I firts got a sense of thi from that one frog in KSY. Whether its the kind of
protrayal (ie: flamboyant choreographer pig) thats welcomed Im not sure. I wouldnt think twice if JHC officially came out with a 'no two ways about it' non vague gay character.

*It made me kind of sad to read Jess' post. However, I was very happy with what she posted in a way. You see a lot of parents dont let the kids think for themselves. How many kids have been sheltered from say The Simpsons or other shows without a choice? It sound slike Emileigh made the decision.
And I'll be honest, the scene with Pepe coming off like a horn dog to Joan Cusack were pretty...far to the left of TV-G, as was the getting drunk/mentioning of getting drunk scenes.

*But I would agree...JHC, now in its vulnerable financial state, has realized a main bulk of classic Muppet fans are teen to middle age. This was not the case back in the 70's and 80's but times have changed. JHC knows full well most of the folks watching this special are going to be college kids, teens, and adults with nostalgic memories yet weened on the more recent pop cultures and trends.

*Language and inuendo. Well...that was the first time I ever heard a Muppet say the word 'sucks'...but oh boy, Ive heard the Muppets say things I would get bleeped for on here(pitch to CBS, Muppetfest q & a, Rowlf on Arsenio, Land of Gorch, etc)

That said, a lot of us arent parents, so it is very hard sometimes to relate to how a parent would gauge or react with a toddler or young kid. I look forward to the day when I can share the joy and celebration of the Muppets Ive been afforded my whole life.
I also think that were just in an awkwar dperiod right now, hence the more 'unused to humor/inuendo' but things have a neat way of entropy back to golden times.

Finally...Joggy! Ack...dont make the mistake I did about KSY! I heard so much bad buzz about KSY I lamblasted it before I even saw it, and boy was I wrong. So I know youve heard various things, but I think one lesson I learned is to just wait til ya get to see it in full. Its sad to hear people come to preconcieved conclusions before seeing it, as this is a rare occation...the first brand new muppet film since MFS!

 

[scarecroe]

Originally posted by FellowWLover
Thanks for taking the time to consider what I am saying! Believe me, I wanted to endorse this movie. It was funny. I am not saying it "sucks" (heh). I just was sorry that it isn't appropriate for a broader audience. I think the Muppets could be a beacon in a world of very poor programing for kids. I know most people don't wish the same thing.

I guess Parent Muppet Fans are going to have the most difficult time with any new project. When Pepe said "sucks," I laughed out loud because I was alone. As I haven't watched it with Gillian yet, I'm going to have to be sure to steer clear of moments like that, or deal with them in an appropriate matter.

It's still tough for me at this point because at Gillian's age, you can only instruct on what not to say, you can't reason with them as to why. I suppose it's a easier at Emileigh's age. We're getting there.

Whatever the content, I'm looking forward to sharing new Muppet things with Gillian and dealing with the controversial stuff as best I can.

I think we should start a support group. Someday, more Parent Muppet Fans will rise up and join hands and sing the song of Muppet Potty Mouth.

 

[beaker]

Re: Jes

Originally posted by frogboy4
Your opinion is certainly valid here. This is just an issue about a show, not a person. Therefore nothing here is really taken personally. Does that make sense? Besides, I usually let the past be just that. Whether like a steamroller or a ripple of wind, I tend to move forward. As Cory has mentioned - I felt the Christmas spirit of the movie too. Glad you're still around here as well!

I'm glad I don't have to look at things like a parent. That's a tough job that I never want to have. Geez, I can't even keep a cactus alive! And the brief periods of time I have spent as an active uncle on this trip have worn me out. I did learn one thing - never do anything really fun for a kid's amusement because they will always say "again" about a hundred times!

Cactus? LOL Jamie, youre too much, heh. (Im still getting over the 'squishilicious comment Boober baby made, too funny!)
But I think it is absolutely awesome we can all come on here and post what we thought good or bad. Yes, I know a lot of things in the film may have rubbed people the wrong way whether it be religious, sexually, or drug/language wise...but in this day and age I thought it was all tame. 'Sucks' and 'Shes Hot' are so G rated I dont know what else to say. Weve heard the Muppets say the h, c, and b word before.

But there was just something about when Kermit got frustrated...it totally reflected my frustration in my personal life this year...and the 'everyone matters' song/speach. It touched a raw nerve in a good way...we all need to be wahacke dby a frozen fish now and then. It's very refreshing to see Jess and Joggy posting again. I think all ex and non active MC members should be welcomed back.

 

[FellowWLover]

Re: Jes

Originally posted by frogboy4

We see where the Simpsons' influence is here.

Agreed. And The Simpsons was (I say that because I haven't seen it in years and don't know what it is like today) a very funny show, also not appropriate for children.

"She is hot" is offensive? Now, I just don't get that. Having a kid say that would be cute.

Oh boy. This statement makes me really understand how differently we see this. Hey, I saw some toddler t-shirts on the boardwalk you might like... one said (in childish writing) "Forget milk and cookies, I want titties and beer!" Or how about "I wish my babysitter worked at Hooters!" Some people think that is cute too.

Seriously, kids take on their attitudes about sex and respect very, very early. This is something our society seems to be missing. If we think it is cute for our toddlers to talk and dress (ever been to the children's department lately?) sexy, why are we surprised when our pre-teens and teens are so sexually active? And before you say it, yes, it is a parent's job to instruct and advise. It is a monumental task, and having sexual themes in Muppet movies, for pete's sake, certainly doesn't help any!

I saw the special with my parents (I am in Houston for the holidays) and wasn't the least bit embarrassed at any part of the film.

Heh. Well I would hope not! You are a grown adult. How do you think a nine-year-old might feel?

Anyway, you are right, it is just a movie, and I am not trying to stir up a debate. I thought my perspective would add something to the discussion, so I posted it. Nothing personal....

 

[Luke]

Hey Jess,

I also can't see it from your point of view (although having the IM at hand kinda comes close to having a kid - the amount of screaming she does) although i've gone through countless legal courses about what can and can't be picked up on by kids during prime time TV but it's no comparison to having a child watch something with you though i'll try to share some thoughts.

Basically (and i have this on incredibly good authority) the kid demographics suck - the Muppets just are not appealing to kids nowdays even when a project is specifically made for them. Henson cannot and will not stay afloat if they continue to cater to kids - and the people who own them will not let this happen. The demographs are apparently ok-ish on a family scale but nothing stunning (eg:- Muppets Tonight, MFS) so they are left trying to woo the nostalgia audience who are mainly 18-30 males who watch the Simpsons. Hence rather than stick with the family audience and join an upwards battle at getting puppets to work for a family audience again they are apparently happy to take what overspill they can in the future and go directly for the 18-30 males. Obviously this means an edgier style, which i personally enjoy (i would - i'm right bang in the middle of their target demograph) and i think has some small chance of working for them to a degree though they're never gonna have an audience share like Homer & Bart.

I do agree with you though and think that perhaps Henson and NBC got the promotion wrong on this. The timeslot was very much a family one and when you look at the NBC promotion for it and also the title itself they've made absolutely no attempt to make it look different from any other family Muppet movie - without watching it you'd think it's 'Muppet Family Christmas' with guest stars. Obviously thats not the case - it's much edgier and to Henson's credit - much of the promotion they did pointed out this new style and more adult path so people were forewarned but NBC could have done a lot more to make parents aware. I guess it's probably deliberate of NBC so they pick up the families as well as the 18-30's but it's not so good for Henson as they have to take the flack for it later.

As for whether this should have been geared towards families more and be edgy but to a less degree, i'd probably say yes. The best thing would have been to gradually initiate viewers into the Muppets new style and still provide something 90% family orientated but instead they seem to have decided to go straight into what 'Team Todd' want the Muppets to be when they get to 'Fox' for the TV show. I can't blame them - it was an opportunity too good to miss to showcase the NEW 'Muppets' and test the audience reaction for the new Fox show but yes, it does cheapen them somewhat but i guess they are hoping any newfound popularity will make up for that.

It's tricky to comment on the actual movie content as i haven't seen the whole of it yet, but from what i've seen and heard it wasn't totally unsuitable for families with kids a little older - i think if i had to make the call i would have toned them down another 15% or so, but then the Muppets are also amidst desperate times and really need the Fox show to work above anything else - and with good figures and demographs so i can see why they needed to take this approach. Its good for big kids like me but it is a shame for families with smaller children hoping to introduce them to the brand !

 

[scarecroe]

Jaime,

Originally posted by frogboy4
"She is hot" is offensive? Now, I just don't get that. Having a kid say that would be cute. Of course they would be quickly corrected, but it's completely harmless.

I wouldn't say it's harmful, but I wouldn't say it's not either. It takes many worker bees to build a conglomerate. Each bee is insignificant unto itself and society, but add them all up over a period of time and you've got a problem on your hands.

Originally posted by frogboy4
I saw the special with my parents

Yeah, well, you're what, 22? You're expected to know what's appropriate. Two seconds of questionable dialogue is an entire process with a 2 or 3 year old to ensure that they don't get the wrong idea.

Originally posted by frogboy4
I'm glad I don't have to look at things like a parent. That's a tough job that I never want to have.

You're right in that it's a tough job. The tinyest, most minescule grain of everyday life that you might take for granted can be a mountain of issues when dealing with a young one who is just learning the ropes of life. The Muppets present a wonderful test area for the real world I think. The Matrix's "Compound" if you will

 

[DramaQueen86]

Originally posted by the_great_gonzo
I also noticed some...uh...strange behavior in this fantastic movie such as...

-The relationship between Pepe (Pee-Pee ) and Rachel
-Scooter gyrating in a cage.
-Animal funnel-chugging
-Johnny serving shots to Rachel
-Pepe saying "sucks"

But hey they promised edgy, they delivered edgy. It was still excellent.

I think all the "crudness" in the movie shouldn't have been included, but hey what can we do? The world is going to trash anyway. If it were up to me I wouldn't try to corrupt the next generation with the Muppets!

 

[punkNpuppets]

Originally posted by joggy

Henson did something absolutely DISGUSTING ... with all the sex humour ... making sex jokes ... If they can't survive without cheap potty humour, they're gonna HAVE to quit.

overreaction???
i mean, it's not like SESAME STREET's getting SEXUAL!!! remember how Janice said "Look mother, it's my life and if i want to live on a beach and walk around naked...." and "I don't take my clothes off for just ANYONE even if it IS ARTISTIC!!!"

and that gay pig is just there to show that's it's NO BIG DEAL to be GAY!!! actually, i take that back, he's just there to make fun of Richard Simmons. but still, it IS no big deal to be gay.

and most importantly, we always need a little sex humour. it's what makes the world of comedy go 'round. i used to like Bill Cosby, but then i realized, why should i care about what he talks about (usually chocolate pudding). but i can't think of one thing that makes me laugh that has a little sex humour (except for vintage Sesame Street). Simpsons, South Park, Beavis & Butthead, Crank Yankers all have alot of sex humour and I love them. MAD TV also has alot of sex humour too and it's my favorite show!

i'm sure we all love alot of sexual shows, but i understand it's kind of hard to see the Muppets getting too dirty, it was hard for me to handle it at first. but then i came to my senses. The Muppets aren't just for kids.

 

[punkNpuppets]

and WHAT BOOB JOKES?

 

[beaker]

As Luke pointed out, we are indeed in different times.
It doesnt take a media detective to know the Muppets demographic with kids is pretty dismal. Thats what Sesame, Bear, Animal Jam, Mopatops, and Hoobs are for. We are in an age where a majority of Muppet fans are 'all growns'd up'. I still think the Muppets are and will always be family friendly...they just work on several layers or levels...it would have been a BIG mistake to make this film condacending and all smarmy trying to force a sense of total G rated ness(thats what would have happened in 1993) However, NBC did kind of drop the ball by lack of longterm advertising(they just started hyping this 2 weeks ago it seems) AND the big mistake: Making this mostly geared toward older people while promoting it as a family film. Bad mistake. I actually am quite refreshed and hopeful what team Todd's new vision of the Muppet show is. Whether the new yet to be unveiled 'edgyness' is to everyones liking who knows.

But I have to say...its apparent Pepe is the runaway character, and is perhaps the first Muppet who could truly transcend the Muppets to costar with a human in say a romantic comedy or something. Seriously. I mean if Kermit can reference out sites than anythings possible.

Now we all get a ruse out of sexual and inappropriate inuendo.
And there was a point about appropriateness for a 9 year old. Well speaking as a 11 year old watching Jim Henson Hour, and hearing Kermit and Bean Bunny debate over 'Sex with Bean Bunny' would bring about ratings(or countless female body part references in skits) I was exhilarated! I realized how ahead of their time the Muppets were, that they could appeal to kids and to adults at the same time. To clear things up, thats why I talk about 1989 being the Muppets last great hurrah.