Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie

[scarecroe]

Originally posted by Joggy
Henson did something absolutely DISGUSTING ... with all the sex humour ... making sex jokes ... If they can't survive without cheap potty humour, they're gonna HAVE to quit.

Joggy, the Muppets have always used implied sex humor. The only reason why it's done so blatantly these days is because people have sadly become even more stupid and likely won't get the smarter implied sex jokes.

I'm NOT gonna watch it. This is a crime.

Well, that's a little obtuse don't you think?

 

[FellowWLover]

Originally posted by scarecroe


What kinds of things specifically would you not want your daughter exposed to?

Hey Scott, thanks for asking.... lemme explain this a little better. Maybe you will see what I mean.

I was very excited to watch The Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie with Emileigh. In fact, even though it aired late, I made sure she was well-rested in order to stay up past her bedtime in order to watch it with me. I planned to cuddle on the couch, eat popcorn, and enjoy a funny and maybe even heart-warming Christmas story with my child on a holiday weekend. In fact, I sort of assumed I would buy the tape, and that we would watch it together every year, not unlike Charlie Brown's Christmas.

Five minutes into it, I was giddy! It seemed to have so much potential, but it wasn't too long before Emileigh was complaining. I know she is older than your daughter, and she is also perhaps especially perceptive for her age, but never the less, she was picking up on things that she didn't like.

You ask what I wouldn't want her exposed to, and it isn't that I wish to shield her. I just think that there are more clever ways to veil "adult humor" (as you said, so that kids don't even realize it, even if we are blushing) than were used in this movie. To me, it was lazy writing.

Hearing Muppets say "suck" and "she is hot"... well, the Muppets lost points with Emileigh for those things because I have taught her that it isn't a nice way to talk. (Do you like to hear pre-schoolers say that something "sucks"?) She winced. And then she just thinks that the characters saying that stuff aren't nice... in fact, she brought it up to me today... "Remember that mean movie last night?" And after so many instances, she was in tears. She was *sad* to see what was going on. She asked me to turn it off. And it was well before the club scene.

And the thing is, this was totally unexpected for me, since it was billed as a Christmas show! I know most adult fans want to see more "adult humor", but was this the right project to bring it out in full force? I think it could have been done more tastefully and still pleased both audiences. (For instance Piggy singing Santa Baby was perfect. It was sexy and funny for adults, yet not offensive for kids.)

IMO, they took the cheap and easy road. I am not saying it was a bad film, and yes, it was far more tame than most popular media, but is that the standard we want to go by? I was really caught off guard by this movie. Parents don't have much to turn to today, and if they can't depend on Muppets (remember I watched TMS as a child with my own mother), I think it is a shame.

 

[FellowWLover]

Originally posted by trekkie1701E
But You look at the three theatrical releases since Jim Henson's death. To me, MT and IVMC seem to be geared more towards older fans, while MCC, MTI and MFS more towards the entire family. In a way, since Jim Henson's death, the company has gone 50/50, in that some of their muppet projects "are" geared towards older fans. Compare this to when Jim Henson was alive...

This is a good point. How are parents supposed to know what the target audience is? I guess we should tape it, and watch it first, but how practical is that? I figured Christmas=family, but in this case, I was wrong.

 

[Janice & Mokey's Man]

Joggy doesn't sound like Joggy...he sounds more like Dwayne...lol

 

[frogboy4]

I don't think the film was "smarmy" in the least. Most of the parts in question took place in the alternate universe portion anyway. I also don't think the Muppet Show has ever been for or catered to preschoolers. That's what Elmo and Big Bird's job.

Hearing a preschooler say "sucks" would certainly disturb me and I'm pretty liberal as things like that go. It is often said in daytime television these days and is common language to hear in public. Okay, it was a little tacky, but if one is to go down that road, we should never hear the Muppets say "shut up" either. How much of this stuff has to be pasteurized for kids? They don't need to hear it coming from the Muppets, but it is the parents' job to instruct their own children on such matters. It really isn't that big of a deal IMHO.

Now, saying "she is hot" is not insulting at all. That's going way overboard! What was Pepe supposed to say there? "I admire her intelligence and so I will help her with her plan." Now that would have been some crummy writing. Come on, now.

I agree that this special was geared to the teen to thirty something fan base. Is that so wrong? It all can't be the same note "Tickle Me Elmo" stuff.

 

[FellowWLover]

Originally posted by frogboy4
How much of this stuff has to be pasteurized for kids? They don't need to hear it coming from the Muppets, but it is the parents' job to instruct their own children on such matters.

It is a parent's job, you are right. I am only saying that any message the Muppets might deliver will not go over as well if it is wrapped in a lot of crass language and unsavory situations.

I know that my opinion on this is not a popular one here, but then again, most of you don't view this from the perspective that I do. You said yourself that this movie was geared for teens and adults. I just think it is a shame that the Muppets can't be counted on to make something the whole family can enjoy together. Friday night after Thanksgiving... seems like a real opportunity was wasted to me.

Naturally, you disagree.

 

[scarecroe]

Originally posted by FellowWLover
You ask what I wouldn't want her exposed to, and it isn't that I wish to shield her. I just think that there are more clever ways to veil "adult humor" (as you said, so that kids don't even realize it, even if we are blushing) than were used in this movie. To me, it was lazy writing.

Okay, I'm on the same page now. I see just what you mean, and you're right. Gillian just turned two a couple months ago and, as you must know, is repeating everything she hears. I have to remember now which episodes Miss Piggy calls Link "stupid" now so she won't repeat it.

"Sucks" and "she is hot" is definatley not cool.

The way I reasoned it with Piggy was like this: if she repeats "stupid," I can teach her that it's not a nice word to use. As she gets older, I can use it as a tool on character study. That all people are different and sometimes use "naughty" ways to express something, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad people.

This is something I'm beginning to battle with in relation to real people anyway. How many swears do you hear people spouting off in public around little ears? Letting her hear Miss Piggy say "stupid" is a good way to allow her to neutrally perceive someone who's got their heart in the right place, but perhaps doesn't quite know how to say it properly.

Does that make sense? It's more clear when I reason it in my head, I know that.

 

[FellowWLover]

Originally posted by scarecroe
The way I reasoned it with Piggy was like this: if she repeats "stupid," I can teach her that it's not a nice word to use. As she gets older, I can use it as a tool on character study. That all people are different and sometimes use "naughty" ways to express something, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad people.

This is something I'm beginning to battle with in relation to real people anyway. How many swears do you hear people spouting off in public around little ears? Letting her hear Miss Piggy say "stupid" is a good way to allow her to neutrally perceive someone who's got their heart in the right place, but perhaps doesn't quite know how to say it properly.

I know what you mean. I go through this all the time with the word "hate". I have tried to teach Emileigh how strong the word "hate" is, and that it is not a nice thing to say to someone. Yet do you know how many times people say "hate" in regular conversation?! Myself included! And each and every time Emileigh will say, "Hate is not a nice word". And I say, "You are right Emileigh, there are better ways to describe what I mean", and then I go on to do so. And it is a good conversation starter, as you said. It forces me to re-evaluate my own choices all the time. And offers plenty of opportunities for me to teach her about the world and the other people in it. (You should have seen the look on the face of the woman on the beach when Emileigh told her it made God sad to hear her say "God D$mn it!". Of course then I have to teach her about tact and diplomacy. There is a fine line between being right and being fresh!)

Thing is, in this particular case, it wasn't just a few shut-ups or whatever. That happens all the time. That we get past with a knowing look passed between us. We know it isn't the nicest way to talk, but we don't let it ruin a good time. This movie was full of a lot more than that. And I bet if you watch it with Gillian in a year or two, you will see just what I mean.

Thanks for taking the time to consider what I am saying! Believe me, I wanted to endorse this movie. It was funny. I am not saying it "sucks" (heh). I just was sorry that it isn't appropriate for a broader audience. I think the Muppets could be a beacon in a world of very poor programing for kids. I know most people don't wish the same thing.

 

[frogboy4]

Jes

Bugs Bunny was known to say worse things than "sucks" when I was a kid.

Would I let my niece and nephew watch this movie? Yeah. They are at an age where it would have flown above their adorable little heads. The "sucks" comment only bugged me because it was one stop short of "don't have a cow, man". We see where the Simpsons' influence is here.

"She is hot" is offensive? Now, I just don't get that. Having a kid say that would be cute. Of course they would be quickly corrected, but it's completely harmless.

I saw the special with my parents (I am in Houston for the holidays) and wasn't the least bit embarrassed at any part of the film. Well, Pepe's cleavage gazing was leading to an uncomfortable feeling, but stopped just short of it for me.

Your opinion is certainly valid here. This is just an issue about a show, not a person. Therefore nothing here is really taken personally. Does that make sense? Besides, I usually let the past be just that. Whether like a steamroller or a ripple of wind, I tend to move forward. As Cory has mentioned - I felt the Christmas spirit of the movie too. Glad you're still around here as well!

I'm glad I don't have to look at things like a parent. That's a tough job that I never want to have. Geez, I can't even keep a cactus alive! And the brief periods of time I have spent as an active uncle on this trip have worn me out. I did learn one thing - never do anything really fun for a kid's amusement because they will always say "again" about a hundred times!

 

[punkNpuppets]

okay, i say "SHE IS HOT" all the time, well, if she's hot! haha! frogboy is right, WHAT'S WRONG WITH SAYING SHE IS HOT???

and "SUCKS"? i say "THAT SUCKS" all the time too! sometime i even say the full version, you know what i'm talkin' bout! you know what i'm saying!..............................you dont know what i'm sayin', eh?

well..