The Bible and Love and Christians

[CensoredAlso]

Meh. After years of getting told you're going to ****, you get used to it.

Just for the record, I was never taught that.

I do want to say, we're always talking about how it's unfair for moderate Muslims to be lumped together with the fanatics. And I agree, it is unfair. But are we saying that in the case of moderate Christians, it's simply they're own fault if they're lumped with the fanatics? Sounds like a bit of a double standard...

 

[Drtooth]

I still don't understand why so many people treat this time and place in the world as some sort of cautious dress rehearsal for something else to come.

Yeah... and the people who d are doing it wrong.

I do want to say, we're always talking about how it's unfair for moderate Muslims to be lumped together with the fanatics. And I agree, it is unfair. But are we saying that in the case of moderate Christians, it's simply they're own fault if they're lumped with the fanatics? Sounds like a bit of a double standard...

I wouldn't want to be lumped in with any extremist no matter what side of what I'm on.

I see what you mean, but I don't get why someone would worry about being ridiculed for being a Christian when they could be ridiculed for believing things they actually don't. I mean, if you're ridiculed for being a bigot, then you look bad, if you're ridiculed for just being something, the ones ridiculing look like the bad guy. Not every Christian is a prudish dark aged nut job. That's probably 10% or something, well in the realm of the outside of touch with reality percentile of a population. If anyone wants to progress and stop whining about losing credibility, they need to point out extremists just speak for themselves and not for anyone else. I mean, politically, theologically, and any other which way. Because extremists are pretty scary no matter what they believe.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I see what you mean, but I don't get why someone would worry about being ridiculed for being a Christian when they could be ridiculed for believing things they actually don't.

Ridiculing someone for being Christian is also a form of bigotry. Are Christians just supposed to put up with it because, "Hey, it's better than being ridiculed for a different reason!"? Gee thanks! Heh...

Again, what I'm talking about here is mutual respect. Let me explain it this way. You have two sides that are often in conflict. Yet Side 1 would like Side 2 to support them on one particular issue. Side 2 would gladly offer it's support, but doesn't entirely trust that Side 1 will give them any support in turn.

It's like Treebeard in Lord of the Rings: "I am not altogether on anybody's side, because nobody's altogether on my side."

If you want people to support you, you have to give them a little support in turn. You can't get it by saying, "Support us or we'll call you a bigot!" That's not how you gain allies in life. (And Air America wonders why they went backrupt! )

 

[frogboy4]

I'm interested in seeing the movie "The Help" and might actually read the book first. There are always those who stay silent while crap is thrown at other people - particularly minorities. Yeah. I don like dos peoples! All it takes is a voice to speak up and respectfully say your peace, but there are too many self-interested folk who only worry about their own problems and wonder why nobody speaks for them.

 

[beaker]

Drtooth, this is the challenge I find myself in. I am un-apolagetic in my anti government and anti war views, some might say vocal. I oppose both the Bush and Obama administrations, TSA security, the "war on terror", patriot act and have opined endlessly about the false demonization and scapegoating of Muslims and Middle Easterners.

Yet, I am also vocal in my strong support and activism for LGBT rights as well as equal footing for women. The rub being, Obama and Israel are very vocal in their support of gay rights. I endlessly criticize Israel, but I also recognize Israel is great if you're a woman or gay. Whereas, the "enemies"/regimes that the US are fighting are some of the most virulently anti woman and anti gay nations on the planet(like Syria and Iran, who hangs people for being gay) So on one hand I talk about how the Western powers bad mouth Muslims...BUT, I also talk about how oppression toward Women and Gay people
is going on in a lot of Muslim nations(such as even post "liberated" Egypt)

I also sadly find myself vocal against various forms of popular black entertainment culture(regarding Reggae music, some rap, athletes, religious leaders, comedians, actors, etc) for some of the hatred(to downright violent) comments toward the gay community. Yet, since I was in grade school I've dedicated a lot of time to trying to understand the black struggle in America, read about post reconstruction hardships and understand the cyclical nature of the plight of the inner city and black identity(in addition to spending a lot of time researching the civil rights era)
I guess maybe life is just complex. In a way I can understand Heralde thinking you may be a bit too hard on Christians. I can name a number of Muslim and some Communist nations where Christians are denied rights, oppressed, rounded up and sometimes even tortured and killed. Point being, it's good to look at things from a wide angle.

Sadly yes, the most extreme countries against gays are Christian Black nations, such as Jamaica, Uganda, Senegal, etc. The forced Christian colonialization and current DC right support along with deep seeded prejudice and such makes it a ripe climate for many gay people to be savagely attacked on a daily basis.

I guess maybe life is just complex. In a way I can understand Heralde thinking you may be a bit too hard on Christians. I can name a number of Muslim and some Communist nations where Christians are denied rights, oppressed, rounded up and sometimes even tortured and killed. Point being, it's good to look at things from a wide angle.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I guess maybe life is just complex.

I think that's the truest thing anyone can say at this point.

In a way I can understand Heralde thinking you may be a bit too hard on Christians. I can name a number of Muslim and some Communist nations where Christians are denied rights, oppressed, rounded up and sometimes even tortured and killed. Point being, it's good to look at things from a wide angle.

I think it comes down to this: Just because the US is wrong on some issues, doesn't mean the rest of the world is right.

I mean I really admire the work of Communist playwright Bertolt Brecht and the way he discussed the corruption of war and the oppression of the working class. But on the other hand he often supported a guy like Stalin, heh (though he was also critical at times). There was a lot of denial on the part of Communists back then on what was really going on in Soviet Russia.

So yeah...complex is the word of the day!

 

[Drtooth]

I also sadly find myself vocal against various forms of popular black entertainment culture(regarding Reggae music, some rap, athletes, religious leaders, comedians, actors, etc) for some of the hatred(to downright violent) comments toward the gay community. Yet, since I was in grade school I've dedicated a lot of time to trying to understand the black struggle in America, read about post reconstruction hardships and understand the cyclical nature of the plight of the inner city and black identity(in addition to spending a lot of time researching the civil rights era)

I'm going to take SOOOOOOOO much heat for this, but I think I finally got it figured out.

Every group, ethnic, religious, whatever HATES each other because they all think they out suffer each other. Jews were misplaced and hated everywhere they went, Blacks were driven here to do the work of pathetically lazy and cheap people and treated horribly for it, gays look like they just came out of no where, but they've been treated like crap for eons too and still are...

We get it. EVERYONE suffered. And why? Money, power, land grabs... same crap. it happened in the past, things sting... sometimes it's better to just move on, but people just like to hold "Something terrible happened to us in the past, and we weren't actually there" over everyone's heads.

I dream of a world where people say, "Yeah, unspeakable crap happened to my ancestors, not so much now." and just deal with it. Learn to get along with everyone and just deal with something they had no control over nor were able to experience. This whole "Your struggle isn't the same as my struggle" garbage is just that... garbage. All struggles are struggles. Everyone wants to be accepted. No clean hands in history, all that rot.

That said, I HATE how masculinity has to be the ideal of complete thugishness. True manliness is confidence in your sexuality. That's where part of Homopobia comes from, and clearly what Tracey Morgan was raised to believe. That's why I like the whole idea of Bromance, Brolationships, stuff like that. A very close comfort with friends. It drops the whole crappy male ideal that people have to constantly punch each other to show affection. That's why I hate all those bad cliched Honeymooners ripoff shows like According to Jim. Jeez... I swear, ATJ is the most annoyingly ubermasculine/borderline homophobic show I've ever seen. The character who has interests outside of sports is always effeminant (even if they're straight) and considered the loser of the bunch. King of Queens barely got away with that for me, but only because of Patton Oswalt and Jerry Stiller. THEY should have had a spinoff.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Every group...HATES each other because they all think they out suffer each other.

Bit of a broad statement. I don't hate anyone just because they belong to a particular group. But I will say this can apply to the bullying issue. I've sometimes found that being bullied does not necessarily breed empathy for others. When people are bullied, they sometimes react by turning around and making life miserable for other people. The old "misery loves company."

Of course being bullied also often inspires victims to be kinder to others. It really depends on the person and their own experiences.

I dream of a world where people say, "Yeah, unspeakable crap happened to my ancestors, not so much now."

Well sadly, many of these forms of oppression are not in fact in the past.

That's why I like the whole idea of Bromance, Brolationships, stuff like that. A very close comfort with friends. It drops the whole crappy male ideal that people have to constantly punch each other to show affection.

Honestly I think there's room for both, as long as people stop judging each other so much.

 

[Drtooth]

The whole male thing is... well, I've said it before.

Commercials are made by some of the most devious people in the world, especially when it comes to adults. Now, seeing all those commercials my entire life got me to analyzing...

Stuff marketed to women plays off their fears of not finding someone or their fears of gaining weight. Commercials marketed to men play off their fears of getting into a fight with their wives/girlfriends OR fears about their sexuality.

I remember a glaring example was subliminally (yet not so subtly) questioning the masculinity of someone driving an environmentally friendly car (I remember some unfunny "gag" at the end where he's holding a poodle or something... there was definitely a connection to poodles somewhere) and making him want a big fat oil inhaling truck because it had horse power and all this other pointless buzzwords. it was so... so insulting.

That's basically how scared men are about their sexuality. Me? I never really need to question mine. i know what I like. I don't want to say it. It's not illegal or immoral (bestiality and pedophilia is the only thing I truly find wrong, ticks me off when people compare gays to that), just... I'm not comfortable saying it here and I feel like a weirdo. Personally, I just can't bring myself to judging anyone on what they ...uh... like... (except feet. I don't get that at all. But maybe it's because everyone in my family has that toe nail disorder) because I feel weird enough and feel that would be hypocritical.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I remember a glaring example was subliminally (yet not so subtly) questioning the masculinity of someone driving an environmentally friendly car (I remember some unfunny "gag" at the end where he's holding a poodle or something... there was definitely a connection to poodles somewhere) and making him want a big fat oil inhaling truck because it had horse power and all this other pointless buzzwords. it was so... so insulting.

I agree that is pretty stupid, lol. I hope those people are proud of themselves when the planet is in ruins.

There are some areas where people do need to just mind their own business. If some men want to do the whole "punch each other" thing, that's fine. If they're more into the, as you say, "bromance" thing, that's fine too. I don't think these different types are entirely products of society or commercials. A lot of it is also based in personality and genetics.