Sesame Workshop Trying To Have It Both Ways(Bert/Ernie issue)

[MrBloogarFoobly]

Ernie and Bert aren't gay, put this bullocks to rest. Ernie/Bert were created as a homage to the odd couples of comedy. There is absolutely no subtext to their relationship.

 

[D'Snowth]

Look at what happened with Princess and the Frog. She was almost named Maddie, and some group said "AAAH! No! That's subservient maid's name!"

I read it was because someone complained it sounded too much like the term "Mammy", which apparently they say is a black stereotype term, but honestly, living in the south, I hear just about everybody, irregardless of race, use the term "Mammy", with no problems whatsoever.

As for females, why do you think SW has such a hard time with adding female Muppets to the show? Same reason. If they're too girly or flawed or something, someone's going to complain about how much of a stereotype or bad influence they are, and when it comes to adding females to a TV show, they all have to be tom boys or kickbutt princesses.

Right, even Carol-Lynn Parente said the 40 years book that had Cookie Monster been a female character for example, they'd constantly be in trouble because people would complain that she's bulimic, or has an eating disorder, etc, and that's basically why it's a challenge for them to add female Muppets to the show... even Street Gang says Zoe was all just a ploy to have a female Muppet on the show that could sell as well in stores as Elmo, which is why she ended up being a counterpart to Elmo.

 

[beaker]

Oh man I loved Pepper Ann. Yeah She Ra and Jem were awesome. Sadly you never had too much of that stuff...I can't imagine how tough it must be growing up in America as a girl when madison avenue and the idiocracy of society pretty much dictate a mostly male world and most of the female aimed stuff is fluffy pink dreck.
Society sadly teaches girls that they're only worth is how they can use their looks or sexual power to get a guy or move up in the world. Italy is a thousand times worse from what I hear.

 

[D'Snowth]

Society sadly teaches girls that they're only worth is how they can use their looks or sexual power to get a guy or move up in the world. Italy is a thousand times worse from what I hear.

Society today is just simply corrupted and decayed. 'Nuff said.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I read it was because someone complained it sounded too much like the term "Mammy", which apparently they say is a black stereotype term, but honestly, living in the south, I hear just about everybody, irregardless of race, use the term "Mammy", with no problems whatsoever.

Well for a lot of people it calls to mind Al Jolson singing "Mammy" in black face.

 

[D'Snowth]

Well for a lot of people it calls to mind Al Jolson singing "Mammy" in black face.

Okay, yeah, I guess I could see that then.

 

[Drtooth]

Oh man I loved Pepper Ann. Yeah She Ra and Jem were awesome. Sadly you never had too much of that stuff...I can't imagine how tough it must be growing up in America as a girl when madison avenue and the idiocracy of society pretty much dictate a mostly male world and most of the female aimed stuff is fluffy pink dreck.

I give mucho thumbs up to stuff like Kim Possible too... Even Recess (with Spinelli and Gretchen). Oh, and I LOVE Word Girl. It's so sad that April O'Neil of BOTH TMNT cartoons was a stronger role model for girls than any of the Bratz. Even the dub of Winx Club had some sexist connotations ("Don't touch the hair" was a lyric in the theme song). Now they got a new dub.. very wooden acting.

I ask you... why the heck is it so hard for them to get a Wonder Woman show out there? An animated one, that is? Granted, I like Marvel's line up of females that aren't almost exclusively girl versions of the male characters, especially the X-Men (Storm, TOTALLY Storm!), but Wonder Woman's usually just the token girl in a group of famous male heroes in Super Friends (to be totally honest, I never really watched Justice League... I know they had more female leads).

But the funny thing is, most girls I know (online, of course) grew up watching the Boy cartoons. They're probably bigger fans than the boys were.

Right, even Carol-Lynn Parente said the 40 years book that had Cookie Monster been a female character for example, they'd constantly be in trouble because people would complain that she's bulimic, or has an eating disorder, etc, and that's basically why it's a challenge for them to add female Muppets to the show

Really. No one ever says Homer Simpson or Peter Griffin are negative White straight Christian Male stereotypes. No one complains when they do something stupid or reckless. I wish ALL cartoon characters of all races and sexes could be treated that way. But someone gets a bug up their butts and complains... then we get useless token characters that are more white than the whitest white guy you know. Accent free people from other countries that are good at everything and have no personality (of course, we can still make Italians talk-a- like-a this-a and mock the French... someone so much as mention Asian culture and martial arts in the same breath and you got like a million angry letters EVEN though it's a genre of film).

Women can only be kickbutt princesses or Mary Sues. Piggy isn't a great female character just because she's strong. She's deeply flawed. She's loud, bold and up in everyone's face, kinda egotistical... but deep down, it's like she needs to keep that up. I will say, Roger and Amy did a BETTER job with Skeeter than the Muppet Babies writers did, where she was just a Peppermint Patty type character. Red Fraggle? Oh, MAN I love Red. She's sporty but deeply flawed in being competitive. Mokey's beautifully artistic, but also completely absent minded. Not a ditz, not a bimbo... absent minded. Actually, I always felt that Fraggle Rock was a lot deeper than Sesame and The Muppet show... even deeper than some of the movies. But Sesame Street has the most important world wide job of the three.

 

[D'Snowth]

Really. No one ever says Homer Simpson or Peter Griffin are negative White straight Christian Male stereotypes.

Maybe because they're... not? I mean, especially considering Homer is yellow, not white.

Buesides, don't they basically reserve THAT stereotype for Flanders?

 

[CensoredAlso]

Women can only be kickbutt princesses or Mary Sues. Piggy isn't a great female character just because she's strong. She's deeply flawed. She's loud, bold and up in everyone's face, kinda egotistical...

What the media, and often women's groups, don't understand is you can't have decent female characters unless you allow them to be what they are--human.

 

[Drtooth]

It's not just women's groups, as I said. Everyone just has a bug up their butts. Though, I'm surprised the Indian community sat back and let a bunch of Goofy caricatures that make Apu from the Simpsons look politically correct get shoved into television casts a few years ago... luckily we're getting less disgraceful characters like Leela in Sesame Street and Raj on Big Bang. I was highly impressed by Outsourced, but they didn't give that show the time of day (replacing it with that SWILL Whitney). But those Metro PCS commercials. I'm not Indian, but I find those commercials howlingly offensive. Like if it was 1945, they'd be African American guys with idiot blackface accents.​

I'm in the middle of PC. On the one hand, I find the fact that a lot of these groups are actually holding themselves back by not allowing flawed representations in a show, but on the other hand, I TOTALLY cringe at the embarrassing racist caricatures they had in cartoons, right up until the 70's... even in some of my favorite classic cartoons. yet, I think everyone overreacted about Speedy Gonzales. And don't get me started on how Asian groups freak out when someone does an accent, even a slight respectable one. That's why in Hi Hi Puffy Ami Yumi, the cartoon versions of them spoke with American Valley Girl accents.​

Back to the topic, the worst part is, the writers and creators are so afraid of these angry letters and feel hindered and hampered when writing and creating said characters. There are a LOT of great women in cartoons, even today. Most of them are Super Heroes, but team members of various groups. I know that's why the new My Little Pony has such buzz around it. Series writer (or something, I don't follow it) Lauren Faust was TICKED OFF that there weren't any decent girls cartoons. Now we got Bronies.

The above all is, you can never know who's gonna like what until it's created.​