Sesame Workshop Trying To Have It Both Ways(Bert/Ernie issue)

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As a woman I hate to point this out, but this is something I have observed from time to time (and I'm guilty of it myself). Girls don't always want to seek out girl characters. Or girl artists for that matter. I remember reading about a Beatles concert in the '60s that had a well known girl group as the opening act. Apparently a lot of the females in the audience got up, moved around, were clearly not interested when they were on. But as soon as the Beatles came on, they came back and were completely into it.

 

[Drtooth]

But do you know ANYONE who goes to a concert and give a crap about the opening act? I remember going to the ONLY concert I ever went to (take a wild guess... really...) and I was worried I was going to get there late, and there was a comedian there halfway through the act. I was relieved. That's what they're there for... exposure, to get the audience ramped up, and to give people who think they're going to be late a huge sigh of relief.

 

[D'Snowth]

But do you know ANYONE who goes to a concert and give a crap about the opening act? I remember going to the ONLY concert I ever went to (take a wild guess... really...) and I was worried I was going to get there late, and there was a comedian there halfway through the act. I was relieved. That's what they're there for... exposure, to get the audience ramped up, and to give people who think they're going to be late a huge sigh of relief.

I dunno... again, I witnessed a fairly interesting opening act when I saw Jerry Seinfeld a couple of years ago: Mark Schiff (aka Little Dog from 2 Stupid Dogs).

 

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But do you know ANYONE who goes to a concert and give a crap about the opening act?

From what I read, the girls loved the other opening act which was an all male band.

 

[Ruahnna]

Going back to the original thread idea, I think you have to make a distinction between official merchandise and un0fficial merchandise. While I agree that the comment that "muppets don't exist below the waist" was a stupid, knee-jerk answer to a question that just won't go away, it was, well, stupid and untrue. Jim Henson, who was--directly or indirectly--the creative mind behind the muppets would NOT agree that muppets don't have fully dimensional lives.
Having said that, and going back to the original thread idea, I think you also have to be honest about the difference between what the character portrays and what the audience wants to make of the characters. Bert and Ernie were conceived (Just stop. Stop now. I work with adolescents all day and I don't want to deal with that here. Sheesh!) as two very different personality'd friends who exhibited good manners and good role modeling for children. Children could watch Bert and Ernie--so very different in the way they approached life--deal with problems and ideas and hurts and friendships and realize that it was okay to be friends with people who were different in all sorts of ways. That's it. That's all.
I understand the longing that people from particular, um, culture groups feel to identify with iconic characters and want to read into their behavior some sort of acceptance of their own worldview, but the truth of the matter is that that feeling originates--and resides--with the watcher. Not the characters. Brent Spiner, who played Data on ST:TNG, has talked often about how female (and I assume, some male) fans wrote to him and gave him pages and pages of interpretation of what Data was feeling when he raised his left eyebrow, but Brent said, "All I did was raise my eyebrow." He was amazed at the different interpretations that so many--so convinced of their correct interpretation--could have of even the simplest, most mundane act. Even in Conan Doyle's day, people tried to ascribe feelings and opinions to Sherlock Holmes that Conan Doyle flatly denied the character had. And, well, to be fair, Conan Doyle would probably know. To be fair, it IS more difficult when there is not just one author--but a writer, a company that "owns" the character, a muppeteer, a NEW muppeteer when the old one is replaced, etc., etc. There are more cooks to spoil the broth or fail to maintain a unified view. And in some cases, like the newest mutation of Star Trek, the maniacally egotistical director felt like it was his job to "fix" Spock and Kirk. How nice of him.
With the muppets, this was even a problem when Jim was alive, but it is more of a problem now. (Case in point: Jim said Kermit and Piggy were really married, and yet there are all those, um...grown up people who get rather nasty about that. In other words, even when a character's "god" speaks, fans will argue they are correct and that the person who actually knows or has the right to make the decision mis-spoke and is wrong, wrong, wrong.
I'm sorry for the disappointment that comes from wanting a character to be "just like I want them to be" and knowing in your heart that they aren't. (FYI: Dr. "Bones" McCoy was supposed to wait for me to grow up--sadly, he didn't.) At some point, as an adult, most people learn that they can have as rich and varied an internal life as they want--but they don't have to inflict it on other people.
Most fans feel a certain sense of propriety for the object of their affections. We want to think that our "take" on them is the "right" one, but wanting it doesn't make it so. That is a lesson our society could stand to learn again.
I would also like to point out that no one--NO ONE--in this entire post, complained about the way television and movies portrays people of faith. They are almost universally portrayed as moron, perverts or racists, and everybody says, "Amen." It's apparently OKAY to be intolerant of SOME people. Even on Seventh Heaven, when their son renounces the Christian faith to become a traditional Jew (this is a HUGE change, and if you don't even know what that means, don't even bother to wade in here), the mother's biggest concern was that her potluck food wasn't kosher. I don't recall anyone howling indignantly (or, frankly, even understanding why they should). And Joan or Arcadia was other folks idea of "real" religious television. Deliver us.
If I like raspberry jam and I believe--no, BELIEVE that Gonzo loves raspberry jam, I don't understand why I have to go around berating everyone who doesn't think Gonzo likes raspberry jam. I can just enjoy my thought/belief that Gonzo adores raspberry jam and listen politely when other people state their arguments for why he would never, under and circumstances, like raspberry jam. If we're all civilized, we might even have a good, rousing conversation about it--without labeling each other as ignorant morons for believing/not believing whatever it is. If we all use our nice manners and our big brains to think with, we might even learn something interesting from each other.
Time and again, I have seen even sensitive subjects wallowed around here with great insight and sensitivity and I believe that we are capable of that level of discourse if we aspire to it.

 

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Brent Spiner, who played Data on ST:TNG, has talked often about how female (and I assume, some male) fans wrote to him and gave him pages and pages of interpretation of what Data was feeling when he raised his left eyebrow, but Brent said, "All I did was raise my eyebrow."

Lol, that's so true. We fans are very good at that.

Even on Seventh Heaven

I'll be honest, I did not like that show. I found it bland and insipid and sugar coated nonsense, and it almost made me embarrassed to be religious. But that's just me, lol.

their son renounces the Christian faith to become a traditional Jew (this is a HUGE change, and if you don't even know what that means, don't even bother to wade in here), the mother's biggest concern was that her potluck food wasn't kosher. I don't recall anyone howling indignantly (or, frankly, even understanding why they should).

I'm not entirely sure what you mean there.

And Joan or Arcadia was other folks idea of "real" religious television. Deliver us.

To each their own. I was sad when that show was canceled.

 

[Ruahnna]

We are very good at that. Part of that makes us FANS. And part of that makes us wonderful. But part of that CAN make us obnoxious and guilty of using something that we love for our own purposes without thought to the damage it might cause to the thing we profess to love. So--happy fandom-ing, everybodd! Just don't hog the road....
Piggy: What?! What that a pig joke?!
Kermit: Um, no--it was a figure of speech.
Piggy: What about my figure?!
Kermit: Oh, sheesh....

 

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But part of that CAN make us obnoxious and guilty of using something that we love for our own purposes without thought to the damage it might cause to the thing we profess to love.

Well...hmm...like I said I think it's annoying when people assume two men can't possibly be just affectionate friends. It's an immature attitude that we as a society really need to get over.

That said, I don't think some fans choosing to look at Bert and Ernie as a couple is causing damage to the characters.

 

[Drtooth]

From what I read, the girls loved the other opening act which was an all male band.

That probably has to do with the fact that... well, sex. I'm not beating around the bush there.

 

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That probably has to do with the fact that... well, sex.

Right, yes, lol. Which is understandable. But the problem is some men don't always care to look for quality female characters either (I know I'm generalizing). So it's a cause that doesn't always get a lot of support.