Sesame Workshop Trying To Have It Both Ways(Bert/Ernie issue)

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Still, the dark side of my mind almost wants to think Ernie and Bert are brothers, and something terrible happened leading them to being alone as kids, Ernie feverishly embracing childish things to mask a serious depression/ repress a terrible memory and Bert having to be his care taker.

Could be a good indie film!

 

[beaker]

Ernie has said he was six? Well there is absolutely nothing kidlike about Bert. to me it's kind of silly to keep certain characters developmentally stuck.

I just am not a fan of retconning. Making Rosita's dad lose a leg fighting in Iraq?
Gonzo is an "alien"? NOPE. Don't accept it. they mess too much with a good thing, like how there was rumors they were going to have a Sesame character "die" to deal with grief.

It's fine if Bert and Ernie were never intended to reflect a bickering gay couple, but the way Sesame goes out of their way to claim otherwise I find kind of humorous.

I DO strongly feel there needs to be a gay human character on Sesame Street, male or female or even a couple. I also don't like being talked down to by Sesame about how puppets are "non sexual"...that's total bullocks. Kermit and Piggy, Gonzo and Camilla, Janice and Floys...Pepe and Animal always chasing women. The notion that Muppets are asexual is a total lie.

 

[D'Snowth]

I DO strongly feel there needs to be a gay human character on Sesame Street, male or female or even a couple.

The problem is all these "fundamentalist" groups out there that say homosexuality is an "evil cult" that our children shouldn't be subjected to.

Okay, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but there IS like an unwritten rule in entertainment that says homosexuality is NOT a a family-friendly subject, I mean look at all these "childrens" or "family" shows that have had controversies over episodes that either mentioned out-loud that characters were gay (ala Postcards from Buster), or featured characters that were of subtle gay stereotypes (ala Cow and Chicken)... not only that, but I believe I've heard that gay figure skater kid (I forget his name, Johnny something, I think) has been banned from a lot of considerably family-friendly events because of his homosexuality.

Yet, it's a double-edged sword ecause we have been able to have openly-gay people on the show as guests before, like the biggest example of all: Neil Patrick Harris as, of all things, a shoe fairy... but if there was a regular character who was gay like that, then people are going to complain, and Sesame Workshop would have to bow to pressure and remove the character, and all he/she has appeared in.

I mean, that's just the reality of it.

 

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The notion that Muppets are asexual is a total lie.

I think it's partly a case of people innocently just not thinking. I mean you have a question like that thrown at you and suddenly you start thinking about these things are puppets and it seems absurd to apply any human characteristics to them. Of course then you're reminded that it's been done a million times before (like with Kermit and Piggy) and you're like, "Oh yeah!"

 

[beaker]

The problem is all these "fundamentalist" groups out there that say homosexuality is an "evil cult" that our children shouldn't be subjected to.

Okay, that's a bit of an exaggeration, but there IS like an unwritten rule in entertainment that says homosexuality is NOT a a family-friendly subject, I mean look at all these "childrens" or "family" shows that have had controversies over episodes that either mentioned out-loud that characters were gay (ala Postcards from Buster), or featured characters that were of subtle gay stereotypes (ala Cow and Chicken)... not only that, but I believe I've heard that gay figure skater kid (I forget his name, Johnny something, I think) has been banned from a lot of considerably family-friendly events because of his homosexuality.

Yet, it's a double-edged sword ecause we have been able to have openly-gay people on the show as guests before, like the biggest example of all: Neil Patrick Harris as, of all things, a shoe fairy... but if there was a regular character who was gay like that, then people are going to complain, and Sesame Workshop would have to bow to pressure and remove the character, and all he/she has appeared in.

I mean, that's just the reality of it.

Modern Family, which to me is a family friendly yet hilarious show, prominently features a gay couple and their suburban gay culture. Yet, there's not a hint of controversy around it. I think a decade ago, when you had a number of gay themed family shows pop up(like John Goodman in Norman Ohio) there was controversy, but now days people seem to accept gay personalities on tv without the over the top flamboyant slapstick.

 

[beaker]

I think it's partly a case of people innocently just not thinking. I mean you have a question like that thrown at you and suddenly you start thinking about these things are puppets and it seems absurd to apply any human characteristics to them. Of course then you're reminded that it's been done a million times before (like with Kermit and Piggy) and you're like, "Oh yeah!"

Well let me take that back...not only are some of the Muppets definitely not asexual, some are hyper sexual. I've seen Pepe say so many over the top(and sometimes, over the line) sexual or skirt chasing lines(like in the From the Balcony weekly series)
Animal too in the real world would be slapped with so many sexual harassment lawsuits.

Also, if as Sesame says, Muppets have nothing below the waist...how did Baby Bear, Natasha, Alice, etc come to be?

At least Disney hasn't had to issue a press statement about a certain gofer

 

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At least Disney hasn't had to issue a press statement about a certain gofer

Lol, weeeellllll, he was perhaps a little too excited when introducing Elton John.

 

[D'Snowth]

Modern Family, which to me is a family friendly yet hilarious show, prominently features a gay couple and their suburban gay culture.

Yeah, well they say Glee is a "family-friendly" show as well, and you got gay people galore on that show.

Really, prime-time isn't family-time anymore like it was back in the 50s, 60s, and early-to-mid 70s; maybe shows like the aforementioned are "tamer" than others, but I'd argue about the family-friendly atmsphere of them, otherwise, why are they rated like "TV-14" and such?

 

[Drtooth]

or a

Modern Family, which to me is a family friendly yet hilarious show, prominently features a gay couple and their suburban gay culture. Yet, there's not a hint of controversy around it. I think a decade ago, when you had a number of gay themed family shows pop up(like John Goodman in Norman Ohio) there was controversy, but now days people seem to accept gay personalities on tv without the over the top flamboyant slapstick.

You know what I love about that show? One of the gay characters IS played by a gay actor, and the other isn't... the one that isn't is closer to the gay stereotype. Plus, the characters spent the first season trying hard NOT to be stereotypes, thinking everyone would be uptight about them, and it turns out, they're the uptight ones. I think a few episodes were about how they had to dial back their gayness to be accepted in Mommy and Me (so they wouldn't be the "gay couple"), yet there already WAS a gay couple there. I always hated crap like Will and Grace because the show was all about how gay the characters were, and it had very little substance outside of that. And the characters were either personality devoid Chandler from Friends wanna bes or Jar Jar Binks. Megan Mellaly's voice can peel paint!

Ernie has said he was six? Well there is absolutely nothing kidlike about Bert. to me it's kind of silly to keep certain characters developmentally stuck.

I just am not a fan of retconning. Making Rosita's dad lose a leg fighting in Iraq?
Gonzo is an "alien"? NOPE. Don't accept it. they mess too much with a good thing, like how there was rumors they were going to have a Sesame character "die" to deal with grief.

The Ernie is 6 thing is actually from the video 123 Count with Me. Of course, it's one of those nitpicky things we try to fit into canon, exactly my references to Cookie's real name (for the sake of a rhyme in a song).

As for the Gonzo thing, didn't they retro-retcon the fact that MFS was just a movie?

That's the thing about Muppets... any character for that matter... we piece together little weird trivia facts, little asides from conversations from performers and we accept it as fact if we want to. Does Marvin Suggs really live in a trailer and beat the Muppaphone because Frank said that once? Is his back story about Piggy ture too?

Now there are things I DO NOT like... Gonzo being an alien (here's the thing... if something's said in a draft of a script, but not in the final version of the movie, does it count? Cuz if so, Gonzo was never an alien anyway), Elmo and Rosita's fathers fighting wars... the Scooter isn't a human thing (Scooters's as human as a green guy with an orange nose , a noseless woman with large collagen lips , or a green guy with no eye balls ). And I REALLY don't accept the fact that Skeeter does/doesn't exist in the context of the Muppets. the whole "oh yeah, she exists, but she's not there and you never see her" bit. I demand to see a Roger/Amy version of Skeeter in a future project.

So what are the defining traits of a characters and what are little gags and asides by the puppeteers that aren't official?

 

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I always hated crap like Will and Grace because the show was all about how gay the characters were and it had very little substance outside of that.

Yeah I had trouble seeing how that was a step forward for gay characters when all it seemed to do was encourage stereotypes.