regular figures...mega sized...what about minis?

[MuppetQuilter]

The mini line is still entirely hypothetical. Sure, Ken has made some posts and shared his thoughts on how he'd like to do a mini line if Palisades decides to go that way, but there has been no announcement. Just a point of order as people are talking about the regular line, mega line, proposed mini line and other Muppet products from Palisades.

I'm confused on something, maybe someone can help with this. First tons of people compared Muppets to Simpsons. Then people said that wasn't a just comparison and while both lines have their good points, they really are very different and shouldn't be compared. Now some of the same people are saying Palisades should follow the Simpson model in terms of what is in the line and when lines are released. Hard to keep track of all the back and forth sometimes.

 

[Luke]

Originally posted by MuppetQuilter
Now some of the same people are saying Palisades should follow the Simpson model in terms of what is in the line and when lines are released. Hard to keep track of all the back and forth sometimes.

I haven't quite requested anonymity yet Annika - that was me !!!!! If i remember correctly - that thread was soley about whether (journalists - specifically) using the tagline 'Next World Of Simpsons' was a justified one for the Muppet line this early on. Personally i felt there were some differences as well as similarities. I don't think it has ever been mentioned anywhere on the forum whether there are opinions as to whether they should or shouldn't follow what Playmates has done product wise. It's very hard not to bring up the most popular character based line though when you are talking about another one who make products in the same categories. Hope that helps !

 

[towels]

Originally posted by MuppetQuilter
I'm confused on something, maybe someone can help with this. First tons of people compared Muppets to Simpsons. Then people said that wasn't a just comparison and while both lines have their good points, they really are very different and shouldn't be compared. Now some of the same people are saying Palisades should follow the Simpson model in terms of what is in the line and when lines are released. Hard to keep track of all the back and forth sometimes.

I'm not seeing it quite as conflict as different perspectives.

From a marketing angle, you can't really compare the two shows. Simpsons have had a regular presence on TV for at least the past ten years. They have new weekly shows and are syndicated, showing 2-3 times a day based on your market. Plus they have some commercial presence (actually Butterfinger is the only one that springs to mind, but it's been a campaign that has run for a few years)
The Muppets haven't had a weekly show in years (too few people noticed Muppets Tonight), and have had a flurry of recent short commercial appearances.
For consumer awareness, it's no comparison.

From a toy collector angle, it's perfectly valid.
Simpsons is a multi-wave TV based action figure line that raised the standard for the industry.
Muppets is a multi-wave TV based action figure line that should raise the standards for the industry due to all the detail and accessories.

It's just a matter of which direction you're coming from I guess.

Now the second angle is the one I think is concerning Luke, and I'd agree.
The Muppet line came out and the details and accessories and loving care really made the Palisades product seem much better than the others.
Now that the Simpsons have a mini-line, I think the expectation for a Muppet mini-line would be to have something one step up from the Simpsons ones. I think not having articulation would seem to some as a step down from the Simpson minis.
I know Ken indicated he wouldn't want to have a line of small action figures, so it wouldn't be fair to lump PVCs into the same category as the Simpson minis, but I can see it happening, and possibly concerning the buyers.
All that said, would I want to buy the PVCs as Ken's been describing them? You bet. Maybe if they can stagger the releases so there are monthly items...1 month the regular series, the following month a playset, the following month the minis, then the next series of figures, etc.
That would certainly help my pocketbook!

 

[Luke]

Originally posted by towels
The Muppet line came out and the details and accessories and loving care really made the Palisades product seem much better than the others. Now that the Simpsons have a mini-line, I think the expectation for a Muppet mini-line would be to have something one step up from the Simpsons ones. I think not having articulation would seem to some as a step down from the Simpson minis. I know Ken indicated he wouldn't want to have a line of small action figures, so it wouldn't be fair to lump PVCs into the same category as the Simpson minis, but I can see it happening, and possibly concerning the buyers.

Yeah thats totally what i was thinking but you put it a lot better. While i know that Ken will make a spectacular PVC line (and i would love to see muppet style textured PVC's) i really do feel that whatever stunning improvements you make, they are still PVC's and putting them out at a time when every other 'hot property' is doing mini action figures, it just makes 'The Muppets' look behind. Although it may not be fair, i can't fail to see Toyfare, and any other interested magazine not comparing these PVC's to the current crop of Mini Action Figures and looking negatively at them, same with corporate Toy Buyers - why do you go with a less popular product range (although admittedly PVC's do have longterm popularity - but they aren't hot right now like mini's) when there are others out there in the articulated range, and with more high profile licenses attached than the Muppets.

On the other hand, i can totally see Ken's point about not producing mini's because they will eat into the regular line. That makes total sense also, so it's kinda a catch 22 situation. This gets back to what i was saying when i said that consumers may have to accept a less advanced product from Palisades because of their commitment to the regular line. I think Ken took it that i was saying he personally wouldn't be able to put the time in to make it a great product and the extra lines would get less attention. That's Not what i meant. I know 150% that Ken has put so much effort and time into this brand that i'd NEVER suggest that, although it was probably my fault for not making myself clear. What i was saying was that because Palisades have to look after their main and most profitable line, they have to deliberately make other similar lines less powerful than the 'regulars' so as not to hurt them. If Palisades didn't have the regular line and lets say, the Megas or Mini's would have been their main product line we may well have seen 'exploding Beaker' or 'Mini Muppet Action Figures' because there would not be the sales or promotion of the 'regulars' to think about.

When i used the term 'wasted' for the ideas - i probably used the wrong word and made it look like i don't rate the products they are producing but i couldn't really find a better word to use. What i meant is that because of this commitment to the regulars, it sounds like we will see the 'Megas' and 'Mini' ideas but in some diluted form of what COULD technically be done if other factors weren't there. Once these product lines have been put out it's unlikely we'd ever see another toy company come in and make the more advanced versions (like Mini Action Figures) because it would be too similar to whats already out there. Saying that, there may never be interest in these kind of lines from other toy companies but with the Muppet brand getting stronger and a regular TV show and possible sale to 'Disney' in the works we don't know that. Again, i can understand why Palisades are doing what they are doing, and it makes great business sense for them to be providing all these lovely products for a hungry fan base but my concern (as a fan) is that the fans don't get 100% what they want in the additional product lines because one company is making all the toys and obviously can't get into competition with itself. Good or Bad thing ? Hmmm i don't know, it's certainly great to see ANY toy company getting involved with the Muppets and making high quality toys such as these so as a Muppet fan i am more than grateful.

 

[beaker]

Well, I dont have much time to look over every single new post on this thread...I do wanna say...luke...I agree with EVERY SINGLE word you wrote. Youre right, this is 2002...
Muppet pvcs by appluase, schliech, comics spain, etc were cool in the 80's....but after you get your hands on Simpsons minis anything else just wont do.

IS saying that mini 3" figures would cannibalize 6" line sales revealing that 3" minis are better? Yes, I voted on henson.com last year repeatedly for 3" size.

Now then Luke and everyone else: Palisades is busy as heck, with the coming quarters...might it be possible for a different company to release mini TMS figures? I dont care about super detailed likenesses...somewhere along the line articulation got replaced by crazy deatil and likenesses. IMHO nothing beats the FP 1978 line as far as my personal tastes...and was wondering if, perhaps Fisher Price might be able to through some contractual loop hole make their own TMS figures again? Why, just a couple years ago they came out with a GREAT Bear in the Big Blue House figure line in the exact same scale as those great 1978 figures.

So with so many different JHC merchandise licencess, maybe there are mini Muppet figures in the works...heck at this point I'd settle for articulated muppet mini kieychains.

Limited articulated mini 3" figures is the only way, I believe to get the obscure characters we want in a cool form...as with all the release pushbacks wiht the 6" line, it could be another millennia before we see the likes of Frackles, Uncle Dealdy, Mahna Mahna etc.

So Luke, Im 100% with ya!
(I mean the new DC comics mini figures are wayyyyyyyyyyyy better than the DC comics pvcs also released recently)
So we have simpsons and DC comics minis as recent examples of setting the bar.

 

[frogboy4]

If you'd accept non-articulated PVCs from another company, why not Palisades? The Fisher Price line has a nostalgic value but the likenesses of Animal, Gonzo and Sooter are particularly terrible. I just don't get people praising these figures. Everyone has their opinions though and I do lile the figures, I just don't see any reason to rave about them. The schleich figures will have nothing on what Palisades is capable of and there's always a market for posed PVC figures.

More articulation doesn't make them better, just makes them different items. And without joints, they will be able to sculpt these characters more like the puppets. There are a lot of reasons that make non-articulated figures a good idea. We will already have 2 selections of articulated ones. The paint and texturing of the regular Muppet line sets them apart from the Simpsons 6 inch assortment anyway. These are different properties and if they made posed minis of the Simpsons no one would complain about it because it is a different item. Just don't get it.

 

[radionate]

2 Cents from me:

I think people are missing the point. Non articulated figures will be sold in stores that would never carry any of the other palisades stuff. THAT'S A GOOD THING. The line isn't over saturated with adding these.

Do people care that the Busts don't have articulated necks? NO. Why? Because they aren't action figures.

The mini figures are just that figures. Like Cherished Teddies, Boyds Bears, Merry Minatures, or any one of 1,000 different lines of various sized figural collectibles sold in card and gift shops across the country, these are figures, and can be played with by children or displayed in themes or sets on adults knick nack shelves.

Quit whinning everyone. Things don't have to move to be cool. You sound like the darn little kids of today who pass up really cool toys of yesterday because they don't make noise or move or talk or throw up (threw that last one in there for fun).

These are (if they are made) going to appeal to a whole different segment of the collecting world. Yeah, maybe action figure collectors will shun them, but who cares. They aren't meant for them. There are millions of PVC collectors out there, and they will take interest in them.

And besides, I'm tired of all the bells and whistles. I look forward to seeing some well made PVC figures, with great detail, in great poses, with great characters. They will be a welcome addition to my collection, and make me smile. And I'll still play with them I'm sure.

That is all. You may now resume your petty bickering and whining.

 

[Luke]

How the heck is this whining ? Thats what i don't get. You come to a forum - what do you expect ? A lapdance ? You get debate and discussion at a forum. Just because people might not agree with your stance on things does not mean they are whining. I think it's pretty childish to suggest otherwise.

 

[Louis Kazagger]

Originally posted by Luke
what do you expect ? A lapdance ?

LOL!

Yeah, the lapdance only comes with your collector's club membership kit.

 

[kansasteen14]

it did sound like a few people were whining