regular figures...mega sized...what about minis?

[towels]

Originally posted by radionate
2 Cents from me:

I think people are missing the point. Non articulated figures will be sold in stores that would never carry any of the other palisades stuff. THAT'S A GOOD THING. The line isn't over saturated with adding these.
Do people care that the Busts don't have articulated necks? NO. Why? Because they aren't action figures.
The mini figures are just that figures. Like Cherished Teddies, Boyds Bears, Merry Minatures, or any one of 1,000 different lines of various sized figural collectibles sold in card and gift shops across the country, these are figures, and can be played with by children or displayed in themes or sets on adults knick nack shelves.

I'm not sure other points aren't just as valid as the point you feel we are missing. Wouldn't the primary retailer for these be Toys R Us? Perhaps these could get into Target, Wal Mart, even Hallmark stores, but I imagine the #1 account Palisades would want would be TRU. And I would bet these would have to be pitched to the same buyer who buys the regular line, and the Simpsons figures.

Quit whinning everyone. Things don't have to move to be cool. You sound like the darn little kids of today who pass up really cool toys of yesterday because they don't make noise or move or talk or throw up (threw that last one in there for fun).

These are (if they are made) going to appeal to a whole different segment of the collecting world. Yeah, maybe action figure collectors will shun them, but who cares. They aren't meant for them. There are millions of PVC collectors out there, and they will take interest in them.

Again, I would buy them anyway. The point is that the buyer for the retailer will probably see this in comparison to other small, articulated toys (like the Simpsons). I can't think of any big PVC stores that Palisades would pitch this line to, but not the regular line.

That is all. You may now resume your petty bickering and whining.

I'll agree with Luke (again) and question how the stating of concerns and opinions becomes petty bickering and whining. I think both Luke and myself, and probably most people on here, want Palisades to have incredible success, which will hopefully lead the way for more and more Muppet stuff to bankrupt us all. It's also not that we think Mike and Ken don't know what they're doing. Sometimes it's helpful to have a devil's advocate. Just imagine what would have happened to the sales of Ocean Breeze Soap if they hadn't had an outsider's opinion!

 

[GWGumby]

Originally posted by Louis Kazagger

LOL!

Yeah, the lapdance only comes with your collector's club membership kit.

Hey you ruined the surprise!

 

[frogboy4]

Luke

I don't think you wree whining. I still think it's a healthy debate though I think you are totally wrong LOL! Just kidding. I do respect your opinion and I respectfully disagree.

I agree with what Nate has said about the market for minis. They will add comthing different. And those who say that such minis have been made before are thinking of figures released many years ago and of inferior quality (in terms of likeness) than Palisades is capable of. The only Muppet PVCs I have seen in the last decade are mainly cartoon likenesses of Kermit, Piggy and a few top characters in costume. Even if these were low quality (and they certainly wouldn't be) there would still be a market for them.

I see PVC minis and action figure minis as two entirely different catagories. One is not a mere cheap version of the other. And lets not forget these aren't really competeing with Simpsons figures. People who like Muppets will buy them.

Did someone say lap dance? Not too stoked about juggies.

 

[Louis Kazagger]

Originally posted by GWGumby


Hey you ruined the surprise!

Oh, man, I forgot! Isn't this the "*Spoiler* if you want to know what the surprise is..." thread? Shoot. Okay, forget what I said. You don't get a lapdance with the membership kit. I repeat, you DON'T get a lapdance. There, that fixed it. Whew......

And personally, I think that if you want an articulated figure, buy the regular action figure line. Making articulated PVC's are unneccessary. Articulated PVC's seem like a copout to me. I applaud the price point Playmates was able to churn those puppies out at, but, I resent the fact that the Simpsons PVC aren't regular scale action figures and part of the World of Springfield line. I wholeheartedly agree that PVC's should be mini statues. Mai too since.

 

[Luke]

Jamie

Thats ok Jamie - i am used to you respectfully disagreeing with me by now ! LOL No seriously it's all cool - i find this all very interesting whatever side of the fence people are sitting on.

You are quite correct that there is a longterm market for PVC's going way back. The thing is - whats hot now is 'Mini Action Figures', most people are raving about them and they are very much the 'in thing'. Seeing as Playmates are shifting tons of the Simpsons mini's, there have been both He-Man and Transformers Mini's i would at a guess say they are probably eating into the popularity of the PVC right now and so i guess that market will be more limited than it usually is. I do agree with you that Mini's are just cheap action figures and PVC's could be much higher quality but i also think to an extent, toy companies have to cater for what sells in todays market.

Now "People who like Muppets will buy them" - again totally true, these would be immensley popular articulated or non-articulated with Muppet fans. It's just theres a middle man between Palisades and the Muppet Fans and that's as i'm sure you know the store toy buyer. Ken has said that doing PVC's will let them go into outlets they never have done before with regular action figures. Very cool - but from this i guess he is talking about arty style collectors shops and model places, rather than major chains. In the grand scheme of things while nice additional revenue i would guess thats chomp change and they'd like to have a major outlet like TRU or FAO stock them too. If you were the company toy buyer in lets say March 2003, and you were presented with 'Thundercats' (another one of those about to be relaunched shows with kick butt new animation) articulated mini action figures, and non-articulated Muppet PVC's and you just have the shelf space for one new line who do you go for ? In the current climate for mini's i think the Thundercats will win every time. Thats what i'm saying, PVC's will be cool but they won't be mini's and they'll get knocked for that because of other products out on the market. If you're a toy buyer you stock whatever you think is going to move of the shelf the fastest, only to a small extent do you buy in those lines that are slow, steady but kinda reliable. Maybe Palisades will make such a cool PVC or have such a major kick butt presentation that can get around that - i very much hope so, but these could also end up being another 'Mini Lunchbox' line where the product is fairly hard to find in major retail outlets.

Saying that, although it turned me off because i was looking forward to Simpsons style figures, from what Ken has said and also from thinking about it more i do also like the idea of very high quality PVC's and think great things can be done. Not that it matters but i totally think Ken and Palisades are making the right choice by doing PVC's instead of Mini's - it's totally right for them and they would be mad to compete against their own regular and Mega toy lines. I'm just kinda making an opinion on how things will be seen and how things could go. I guess i'm kinda on the fence - i think if this were a main line for any toy company not already involved with the brand they would produce 'Mini Action Figures' in line with current trends, but then i totally think the way Palisades are going is right too but it doesn't mean i think the fans are getting the best deal - more a compromise that benefits everyone.

Anyway, thats just my opinion and thoughts on this. Seeing as we already pretty much know what we may be getting and people have pretty much had their say eitherway it'll probably be more fruitful to continue discussing ideas for the PVC's and the different themes and styles Ken can make for us all so i'll try to move onto that myself !

 

[frogboy4]

Luke

Very well said. I don't think people would get Thundercats minis just because they have a few joints in them. I don't see it as an either/or proposition. I think the customer will go with which one looks better and non-articulated figures can look a lot better for several reasons.

I also believe that many small gift and card shops with limited space that don't want to get into stocking up all the current action figures would stock PVC figures. That's not a minimal market at all. In fact - it seems to be an enormous market for these. There are many such shops in the US - more than ones that carry action figures (as I have recently learned in my figure hunts).

The only other extensive Muppet Show PVC released was by scheich twenty years ago (and the not-so-extensive FP figure puppets). I think there is a huge market for such PVCs. I find it silly that some suggest that Palisades should just hand over their licensing deal to make these over to another company for some inane and arbitrary reasoning (not yours though).

I am sure that these are the types of things Palisades had in mind when they inked the deal with Henson and why should they not make the most of it? I'm glad you see the value in these even if you are on the fence. I’m totally stoked! Actually non-articulated figures were what I initially wanted so there is that bias.

 

[ResidentLilly]

The debate goes on...and it's a good one. Two interesting things occured today in this area.

First, I saw some Muppet PVC product. Travis, our new sales guy (who has a very quiet alarm clock!) and all around Muppet fiend has a pretty amazing collection of Muppet goods. We went to his house today for some educational research on Muppet product of the past. Wow. Amazing how much there is NOT. I never realized how little there was, and now understand even more how impressive the WETA sculpts and our sculpts have been. Not saying that to self congratulate, but I just assumed there must have been some really cool stuff before. A few pieces, but not reflecting the modern aesthetic born of the past few years.

Second, I bought two set of Simpson's mini figures. Now I understand why the price is so low. Minimal paint ops, simplistic sculpting and not a lot of detail. I really like them, they fit into the Simpson line perfectly and they work for the license, but now I realize more than ever just how complicated a line of smaller Muppet PVC figurines or figures would be. And, I also realized two other things that would make it tough for Muppets to have small mini figs at a decent price point. One, Muppets would require a lot more paint. A HECKUVA lot more. They would also require more separated parts and have certain scale and size requirements. The more parts the more pricey the molds. You could not articulate thin little Muppet arms at a reasonably small scale. Just could not do it. You also have humans that are all generally the same scale. That makes it a lot easier to cost and control packaging and pricing. I think the discriminating Muppet fan would at least want some scale differences. Not as much as the figures, but certainly the final goal would not be to have Kermit the same size as Sweetums or even Fozzie.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw 2 more cents in. And yeah, articulated mini's would be cool but I still think that in my head the product I am seeing that would result in the best Muppet mini's on the market would be non-articulated PVC figurines. Allows for a better product, in my opinion.

Something really bugs me...I mean REALLY bugs me about these Simpson's figs. At least half of them don't stand at all. The rest will be knocked over by a stiff wind. Molded bases would have been nice. That would have driven the cost up though. I'll be leaning quite a few of these in a display.

 

[Luke]

Hey Ken,

There was a ton of quality stuff (for its time) over the original years, but as you've seen, not so much post Muppet Show because it's been out of the limelight and the characters haven't always had a continous public profile making the license less attractive, and that hasn't always been Henson's strong point anyway. The most recent cool things have been the Igel plush toys which are excellent but produced in Germany and have a seriously limited production run but the likenesses, packaging and quality was top notch. Things are picking up big time now obviously with yourself, Sideshow and the myriad of other 25th anniversary merchandise. Anyway you never did mention what you thought of the new Henson busts - i take it you have seen them up close at the con - any comments ?

As to the mini's - yep obviously you are right. Articulation wouldn't be a great thing for some of the characters - Pepe and all his arms would pretty much be a no no. As for scale - it's not always been an important factor in Muppet merchandising but i know what you mean. Anyway you guys know what works better than anyone and it's cool you took the time to research this. There are obviously advantages and disadvantages to doing either kind of PVC and i can see both sides.

The thing that bugs me about the Simpsons lines in general be it regulars or mini's is that they use stickers on the accessories and i think also on their actual minis.

 

[frogboy4]

Ken

Very interesting! Now you see what I mean about people praising the Muppet figures of the past. I love my collection and it has nostalgic value (not to mention Ebay value) but they are not that great.

The Fraggle Rock PVCs have to be my favorite because of the detail and the Fisher Price Fozzie and Rowlf puppet figures are also impressive, but the rest are very cartoony and plain. The Simpson's line is great, but they are cartoony and simplistic. They don't require as much detail. That still doesn't excuse their rather plain playsets, but I am a new collector so Palisades has set the bar for me.

Advances in technology have helped a lot, but I also think this new quality has to do with a new generation of people who respect the medium and will pay a little extra for quality.

 

[GWGumby]

The stickers are a bad bad thing. It may make things cheaper, but I hate trying to place a comic book in the hand of a figure only to have its fingers rip into the sticker and/or push it up thus ruining that accessory.

(Though with all the repeated accessories this line has, I've got dozens of other comic books laying all over to take place of any ruined ones. How many stacks of books and handcuffs can one really use?)