regular figures...mega sized...what about minis?

[Lu775]

Originally posted by kansasteen14
I have the Rudolph figures only they have The Snowmonster as a HUGE figure to the rest and he has articulation,but the rest dont and I LOVE them,so I wouldnt mind if the muppets had no articulation.

Yes, I thought those Rudolph figures rocked. No articulation is just fine with me.

 

[frogboy4]

Luke

I totally disagree. PVC figures are popular no mater what type of artivulation they have and these will undoubtedly be far superior to any that have come before. They are always in season and though they may not reach the same exact market as the six inch figures, I don't thing it really matters. Palisades is trying to diversify the collection in the ways their contracts permit them and figures are their specialty!

I say it's a great idea! You were concerned before that the articulated minis would hamper the regular line and now you are saying non-articulated minis aren't good enough and that collectors won't buy them. I say bah! LOL!

Furthermore I feel your ideas for pricing are way off. I was just flipping through my Muppet Magazines from twenty years ago and the PVCs in there are priced at $2.00 each! Considering inflation, I can certainly see how a mini of higher quality, likeness and detail would go for a dollar or so more (when packaged together).

 

[MuppetQuilter]

I would love to see textured PVCs. Way cool possiblity.

 

[ResidentLilly]

Gotta disagree Luke. Your argument is a good one, but I think that the mini's should be non-articulated. Smaller figs would compete with our basic line, not so much so with PVC figurines. Also, it's an entirely different product category, that can get us into places that don't typically sell "action figures". As for Play With It!, we use that moniker on all our stuff, even our resin statues. Obviously it does not apply to resin, but it would to PVC mini's. Articulation does not define Play Value to me. Heck, I played for hours with little green army men, and they had no articulation at all.

Matter of viewpoint I guess, but I feel pretty strongly that articulated mini's would be the wrong way to go for us.

 

[Crazy Harry]

I'm not compleatly against non-articulated minis. I was just surprised by the disition. I'd still happily buy them.

 

[frogboy4]

I think of these PVC figure minis as plastic versions of the resin statues. That's the height of quality that Ken seems to be posting about. I think they'd be a fantastic idea! To tell you the truth I was actually concerned about the articulation. Just because other such minis have been made before doesn't mean that these won't be entirely different and set a new bar for "fixed pose" figure minis. The only thing that would concern me would be pricing them too far above $20.00 but this is Palisades' business and I trust they know best.

 

[Luke]

Re: Luke

Originally posted by ResidentLilly
Gotta disagree Luke. Your argument is a good one, but I think that the mini's should be non-articulated. Smaller figs would compete with our basic line, not so much so with PVC figurines. Also, it's an entirely different product category, that can get us into places that don't typically sell "action figures.

Obviously Ken, you know best how to make your products and have to think about the license as a whole and i trust you will make the right decisions 100%. Thats why i can totally see your point there about how 'PVC' will be significantly different from the regular line and so not affect it. Although i have to add - Playmates seem to have done pretty well with both regulars and mini action figures but then they've waited a long time to release each new product. The thing is though - you are kinda answering as 'the guy from Palisades' and selling us the idea of PVC's rather than Mini Action Figures because of your existing line and thats how you are likely to do it. If you were to step OUT of your Palisades shoes and were just the 'average joe' would you prefer PVC's or Mini's, and which do you think would be more popular ? I'd be interested to know.

People are gonna be nipping at my heels for this, and i personally don't want you to take it the wrong way because i am loving your work dude - but i kinda get the feeling lately that Muppet fans are going to have to accept a less superior product in some areas because of your commitment to the regular line. The idea of Megas was cool, but it's been (in my opinion) wasted, so much could have been done with this (Exploding Beaker, Spinning Bow-Tie Fozzie) but because obviously it is a product you are economising with and using the same designs it means this won't happen. With the PVC's - one of the reasons they aren't going to be 'Mini Action Figures' is because they would affect the existing lines and need to be very different, wheras the chance for real mini articulated action figures which are 'en vogue' right now has been wasted and won't happen due to the regulars.

Thats all no problem - i can see and totally understand why you are doing this for Palisades and i know the products you come up with will be super cool but to an extent it means that the opportunites for the better, more advanced products are gone, because where another toy company might have got the license for these extra products seperately and made them 'flagship' pieces they will only ever be ''filler lines" for Palisades and it's unlikely we'll get more advanced versions once a similar product has been made. I know these kind of decisions are business ones for you guys, and there is no intentional plan to pull one over on the fans but this is kinda how it has all worked out, and while we are d-a-m-n lucky to be getting all these quality products, it does mean that would could have been, will not be, due to those regulars. (although they kick butt and i don't think any of us would have it any other way). Anyway just my opinion and please don't take it as anything bad - you guys make great toys first and foremost !

One question though. With Playmates they concentrated on the regular line with very few releases of other Simpsons products in the first year or two. Now they have slowly branched out into larger figures and mini action figures. Why is Palisades doing the Regulars, Megas, Mini's AND the other yet to be announced products so soon into the license ? Is it just a question of economics because you are a smaller company and have to recoup that license money a lot faster than Playmates does, or is there some kind of strategic reason that you feel building up the line this fast is neccasary ? In some ways i like it because there will be more products out there next March to supplement the TV show and get fans into collecting Muppet stuff, but in other ways it kinda makes it look like you guys have doubts as to the longetivity of the brand or whether the changes afoot at Henson will affect your investment.

Jeez this is long - sorry - i ask because i respect your opinion and am highly interested as i think others will be, oh great god of plastic !

 

[Luke]

Originally posted by frogboy4
I say it's a great idea! You were concerned before that the articulated minis would hamper the regular line and now you are saying non-articulated minis aren't good enough and that collectors won't buy them. I say bah! LOL!

Furthermore I feel your ideas for pricing are way off.

If you read back i was concerned about the mini's affecting the regular line IF they were released at the same time as the Megas and it seemed like Palisades were rushing stuff out all over the place. It was all about timing - not about the actual figures which is how you put it.

I'm sure that Ken will make top notch PVC's but they won't be the cool mini-action figures we are seeing from people like Playmates. It might not matter to you that they don't move, and it might matter to others, but PVC's have been done and can probably only be improved to a certain extent after every toy company has had a go over the past twenty years or so.

Also my ideas on pricing were NOT way off - prices have come DOWN as new technology's emerged. If Playmates can do 5 articulated figures for $10 then there's not really a reason why Palisades has to charge $20 for a set of unarticulated ones. Yes, they may be higher quality paint jobs but whats the point of that if you are pricing yourself above the rest of the market - the whole point of doing a budget line of small figures is that fans want to 'Play With It !' - they aren't going to be stocked in art gallerys and i've not seen the Simpsons mini's criticised for a lack or detail - far from it infact. As a hardcore fan, you would probably buy them at $30 a pop but put yourself in the shoes of a 'Toys R US' toy buyer and you would be looking to go with a price point thats competitive with other lines.

I'm NOT saying i think PVC's are a bad idea - what i'm saying is that i think there was the opportunity for a lot more than that if there weren't other factors affecting decisions too.

 

[frogboy4]

There will already be 2 types of articulated figures and as Ken has said - these all new sculpt mini PVC statues will allow an even better likeness of each character because of the absence of joints and moving parts. It offers variety. Nothing bad about that. I like the PVC sets that have come in the past- but there really aren't many of them and the likenesses are not even near top-notch. People keep stating the superiority of the Fisher Price figures and the Schleich minis. They are not really very good likenesses though they do have sentimental and collectible value.

You keep going over the fact that the megas won't have a billion different features. Though they would be cool, they would certainly require all new very pricey sculpts when the current plan will do just as well. There will likely be a bit more to them then the regular size, but no popping heads and spinning ties. I really don't think they need those bells and whistles. I am sure Ken doesn't intend for everybody to buy everyghing. It is an alternate product. Sure, it's easy to breaistorm these ideas, but ultimately they must go with what is practical.

Muppet products have always been a little more expensive, though I still hope these won't have a hefty price tag. Your comments on the pricing has certainly been noted and I am sure ken has considered it, but I trust that if these even come out they will have thought out a strategy for them. It's how they make thier paycheck, I'm sure they know what they're doing.

 

[ResidentLilly]

OK, let me try to address each aspect of your post separately.

If you were to step OUT of your Palisades shoes and were just the 'average joe' would you prefer PVC's or Mini's, and which do you think would be more popular ?

I would want PVC statues. For several reasons. First, I get my articulated stuff in the regular line. Second, I see the potential for more dynamic and true to character sculpting in non-articulated statues. Third, it is not an action-figure, therfore a new product category that I can buy. There are some people who collect miniatures of all kinds, and have zero interest in an articulated action figure. I happen to like both. I like non articulated PVC sets. Always have. As Product Boy I believe it would help the line to do it that way over smaller "mini figures" because you eat into your own sales if you do it the other way. Maybe we wouldn't, but why take the risk?

People are gonna be nipping at my heels for this, and i personally don't want you to take it the wrong way because i am loving your work dude - but i kinda get the feeling lately that Muppet fans are going to have to accept a less superior product in some areas because of your commitment to the regular line.

I think people will have to decide that for themselves. I commit myself as intensely to each and every product we make. I work a lot of hours, I get little sleep and I don't take nearly enough time off. I know what my limits are, and I have not reached them. No matter what, some project would be in for next year that would require X- amount of work. Actually, if we were to do PVC figures (which is interesting because no one has ever said we are) they would require a lot less time from me to make great. You'd be suprised how much time and effort it takes to baby an action figure through production.

The idea of Megas was cool, but it's been (in my opinion) wasted, so much could have been done with this (Exploding Beaker, Spinning Bow-Tie Fozzie) but because obviously it is a product you are economising with and using the same designs it means this won't happen.

I think MEGA Muppets are extremely cool, and I don't think the idea has been wasted. Besides, you really don't have any idea what the line will be like, what we have plans to do, what suprises there might be. How can you possibly say the line is wasted when not a single product has seen the shelf? That seems a little defeatist to me. I think you are under the impression that these are just bigger versions of figures and why do you want that? That's cool. They are. Some changes but not much. There are other people who say "these are bigger versions of the regular figures and that is VERY cool!" There is precedent for this, as well as a portion of the buying public who will be into it. I don't consider it a waste of a large scale line, because it would only be a waste if we did not do what we set out to do. What we set out to do was make larger scale versions of key figures. We did not set out to make new figures. That is the regular line and what it is for. These are lower volume extra products that people can buy their favorites of, about 3 or 4 each year. I stand by the MEGA Muppet concept. You should too, at least until you SEE the product. Then decide.

With the PVC's - one of the reasons they aren't going to be 'Mini Action Figures' is because they would affect the existing lines and need to be very different, wheras the chance for real mini articulated action figures which are 'en vogue' right now has been wasted and won't happen due to the regulars.

It would be foolish to have two full lines of action figures, in nearly the same scale, competing with each other. The reason no other retailer could do this if we choose not to is because we would fight it with everything we have. Little figures cannibalize, PVC statues do not. Again, you say that an idea is wasted before having even seen a concept of this line. Before we even announced we are doing it. If the product doesn't appeal to you that's cool. But give it a chance before you judge it so completely. What kind of action figures for Muppets existed before this year? I am sure about a year ago a lot of people thought they were gonna see more FP type stuff. I would ask that you try to be open minded about these ideas. But in the end it is your call to make, your wallet will speak and I can respect that.

Anyway just my opinion and please don't take it as anything bad - you guys make great toys first and foremost !

I don't take it as bad at all. You are absolutely entitled to feel the way you do.

With Playmates they concentrated on the regular line with very few releases of other Simpsons products in the first year or two. Now they have slowly branched out into larger figures and mini action figures. Why is Palisades doing the Regulars, Megas, Mini's AND the other yet to be announced products so soon into the license ? Is it just a question of economics because you are a smaller company and have to recoup that license money a lot faster than Playmates does, or is there some kind of strategic reason that you feel building up the line this fast is neccasary ?

We don't feel any real need to run out and get as much product on the shelf as we can. We are trying to fill al market void with collectibles and toys for a fan base who has been lacking a lot of choices in the past 25 years. It has nothing to do with our size, our financial needs. We are doing fine. I should point out that at any given time you can probably go out right now and find about 50-100, depending on where you are, product categories on the shelf today for Simpson's. You'd be lucky to find about a dozen for Muppets.

Also, Playmates has more categories of product out for Simpson's at the moment than we have TOTAL PRODUCT LINES, including non Muppet related properties. And they did not wait that long to have other categories on the market. The waited a while for these Mini's, but who knows why? There have been plenty of other Simpson's products from Playmates since Day One.

I don't think we are looking to have too much product on the market. Besides, we still aren't even talking about that much in terms of dollars with 3-4 MEGA's and 3-4 PVC sets in any given year. At the volumes we expect to run that's really chump change.

In some ways i like it because there will be more products out there next March to supplement the TV show and get fans into collecting Muppet stuff, but in other ways it kinda makes it look like you guys have doubts as to the longetivity of the brand or whether the changes afoot at Henson will affect your investment.

That logic is hard for me to get my brain around. Why in the world would we invest thousands of dollars to sculpt, paint, tool, prep and release two additional product categories if we doubted the longevity of the brand? In order to doubt the longevity of the brand, if you are us, you'd have to have bad sales numbers. If you have bad sales numbers, why in the world would you launch ANY new products? That doesn't make sense to me as a debate. If anything, launching MEGA's and if we were to do PVC's that says that we have decided to invest more time, money and energy into something that is turning out to be very successful for us.

OK, my fingers hurt now. Too much typing.

Appreciate the thoughts. Thanks for taking the time to voice them.