Muppets' Wizard of Oz cast list

[timrikthegorf]

That;s true. He's not bad with a script, but when he does live stuff...ouch. It looks like Kermit will be goofy in the WoO movie though.

 

[GelflingWaldo]

Look at some of the earlier-Jim as Kermit works. Watch the old Ed Sullivan clips, Hey Cinderella, The Frog Prince, or the early Sesame Street skits; then watch some of the mid-Jim as Kermit works like The Muppet Show, The Muppet Movie, and The Great Muppet Caper. Then watch the later-Jim as Kermit works like the Jim Henson Hour, and Muppet-vision 3-D. Kermit has changed a lot. His voice, his posture, his attitude, his personality, even his species. That took place over 35 years.

Then watch early-Steve as Kermit; like Muppet Christmas Carol, Muppet Treasure Island, Muppets Tonight. Then Watch current-Steve as Kemit; like Muppets from Space, It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie, and the upcoming Muppets Wizard of Oz. Kermit has changed a bit. His voice, his posture, and his attitude. That took place over 15 years.

Kermit has been evolving since day-one, when he first showed up on Sam & Friends as a lizard-like creature made out of an coat. Mickey Mouse has evolved, Winnie the Pooh has evolved, Bugs Bunny has evolved, Homer Simpson has evolved, Barney the Dinosaur has evolved; they all evolve and change - and it's usally for the best. Imagine if Steve kept Kermit exactly like he was 15 years ago when he took over the character. Imagine if Jim kept the character exactly like he was 50 years ago. The character has slowly changed in the 15 years Steve has had him, but in the 35 years Jim had him he changed a lot more. The character has to evolve, they all do it. I do admit the current Kermit is not 100% like Jim's (it might not even be 75%), but it still is Kermit. Kermit may be 50, but he is still growing and changing.

 

[timrikthegorf]

I think it's good for a character to evolve but there comes a point when the character is at it's best. Kermit was at his best in the mid to late 80's as were most of the characters. Once a character is at his best, the evolution should stop.

 

[McFraggle]

Look at some of the earlier-Jim as Kermit works. Watch the old Ed Sullivan clips, Hey Cinderella, The Frog Prince, or the early Sesame Street skits; then watch some of the mid-Jim as Kermit works like The Muppet Show, The Muppet Movie, and The Great Muppet Caper. Then watch the later-Jim as Kermit works like the Jim Henson Hour, and Muppet-vision 3-D. Kermit has changed a lot. His voice, his posture, his attitude, his personality, even his species. That took place over 35 years.

Then watch early-Steve as Kermit; like Muppet Christmas Carol, Muppet Treasure Island, Muppets Tonight. Then Watch current-Steve as Kemit; like Muppets from Space, It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie, and the upcoming Muppets Wizard of Oz. Kermit has changed a bit. His voice, his posture, and his attitude. That took place over 15 years.

Kermit has been evolving since day-one, when he first showed up on Sam & Friends as a lizard-like creature made out of an coat. Mickey Mouse has evolved, Winnie the Pooh has evolved, Bugs Bunny has evolved, Homer Simpson has evolved, Barney the Dinosaur has evolved; they all evolve and change - and it's usally for the best. Imagine if Steve kept Kermit exactly like he was 15 years ago when he took over the character. Imagine if Jim kept the character exactly like he was 50 years ago. The character has slowly changed in the 15 years Steve has had him, but in the 35 years Jim had him he changed a lot more. The character has to evolve, they all do it. I do admit the current Kermit is not 100% like Jim's (it might not even be 75%), but it still is Kermit. Kermit may be 50, but he is still growing and changing.

I agree that it is important that characters keep what makes them unique but still evolve a little with the times as well.

 

[The Good Doctor]

I think it's good for a character to evolve but there comes a point when the character is at it's best. Kermit was at his best in the mid to late 80's as were most of the characters. Once a character is at his best, the evolution should stop.

I have to agree, all of the characters had reached a point at which they were the best they could be, and the evolution need to if not stop at least slow from that point on. Kermit is just wild all the time, like a freak. Look at Muppets Christmas Carol, this film is the most like the original Muppet Show, and Kermit is most like the character Jim had spent years building him into.

Now the Muppets are just a joke of there former selves, I mean can they make Fozzy any dumber. I mean look at the Muppet Movie, he is funny not stupid, and he and Kermit look out for each other. Now days he acts like a little baby, picking his nose, and is made to look like a total dummy and is constantly set up to fail.

If the characters are not evolving they are reverting back to infancy.

 

[dwayne1115]

im sorry but i truly dissagree. look at AVMMM. Foizzie was a little bit back to normal. and Kermit is not a wild in this at all most of the time he is hurt emoitnaly. if any evloving came frome this movie it was Kermits and Piggy relationship. He really loves and needs her and it showed in this movie.

 

[The Good Doctor]

Avmmm

im sorry but i truly dissagree. look at AVMMM. Foizzie was a little bit back to normal. and Kermit is not a wild in this at all most of the time he is hurt emoitnaly. if any evloving came frome this movie it was Kermits and Piggy relationship. He really loves and needs her and it showed in this movie.

Actually that is the film I am talking about (AVMMM) The whole thing with "I wish I had never been born!" way to over the top for me. Fozzy being nothing more than a dummy who can't do anything right, I was heart broken to see him have to face those lasers, but doing it a 2nd time was just plain dumb. The "love hate" relationship Pepe has with Joan Kusack....give me a break. Not to mention the huage drug refrence, and Scooter cage dancing.

 

[pppapazo]

Well, this is and will continue to be a point of contention for Muppet fans. Personally, I think IAVMMCM was far better than MCC or MTI. I try to forget that MFS even exists.

Regarding Kermit, I'm not sure why people think he flips out too much when the only time he's really done that in a post-Jim film was in the "I wish I'd never been born" rant. Given the circumstances, I think it worked and was a genuinely funny Kermit moment. He was never in complete control on The Muppet Show and was prone to the occasional outburst. It's what makes him so real. Keep kermit gentle all the time and he turns into Mickey Mouse.

And Fozzie wasn't portrayed as a dummy in IAVMMCM either. Quite the contrary. He was working against pretty overwhelming odds that, in the end, he couldn't overcome. Let's face it, though. Fozzie was never the world's most competent bear. But the moment he goes back through the lasers for the bag is my favorite post-Jim Fozzie moment of his. It's such a fearless thing to do, fueled by his devotion to Kermit. (I think the sequence runs long, by the way, and the croc hunter bit should've been cut if they couldn't actually get Steve Irwin, but that has nothing to do with Fozzie.)

So, personally, I'm thrilled that we're not getting another faithful adaptation of a classic novel. I've read the first half dozen or so Oz books, and the original is a favorite of mine, but I'm glad that they're going back to their comedic Muppet Show roots. Think back to the Brooke Shields episode. When the Muppets put on their play of Alice in Wonderland, it kept falling apart. But even though Bunsen & Beaker can't make Brooke the right size, Marvin Suggs beats the jury to a pulp, and Fozzie thinks they're doing The Wizard of Oz, it's charming because they're all trying so hard.

I'm sorry that you don't like the direction the Muppets are headed, but I see it as a return to their roots and I'm delighted by it. Kermit was always wound a little too tight, Fozzie was always a little slow, and Piggy was always a little shrill. And being upset that a Muppet movie isn't being faithful to the book it's based on is a little like being upset that Weird Al changed the lyrics to your favorite song.

 

[Beauregard]

Hmmm. Fozzie beign set up to fail. Isn't that the idea of Fozzie? i thought that was what made him the most endering comody bear. He does his best, and never quite makes it. His jokes on the Muppet Show, always failed.

"My Ma lives a stone throw away from these woods *a stoen flies in and hits him* Ma!" "These are the oaks, folks"

His time as a vantriliqist, he failed.

His time as a magicion, "Cutting a lady in half..." And Kermit sent him a robot. "Cutting a thing in half"

But everything he enters, he enters with such enthusiasm and devotion (to Kermit in VMC, to Art on MS, to his fight in MTI, to hsi speech in MCC) That is his character, that's why he is who he is. Sure, they dumbed him down for MFS (And I HATE that they did that) and they gave him Mr Bimbo (which I Hate even more) in MTI, but all in all, he is himself most in VMC.

No?

 

[The Good Doctor]

Out Numbered

Hmmm. Fozzie beign set up to fail. Isn't that the idea of Fozzie? i thought that was what made him the most endering comody bear. He does his best, and never quite makes it. His jokes on the Muppet Show, always failed.

"My Ma lives a stone throw away from these woods *a stoen flies in and hits him* Ma!" "These are the oaks, folks"

His time as a vantriliqist, he failed.

His time as a magicion, "Cutting a lady in half..." And Kermit sent him a robot. "Cutting a thing in half"

But everything he enters, he enters with such enthusiasm and devotion (to Kermit in VMC, to Art on MS, to his fight in MTI, to hsi speech in MCC) That is his character, that's why he is who he is. Sure, they dumbed him down for MFS (And I HATE that they did that) and they gave him Mr Bimbo (which I Hate even more) in MTI, but all in all, he is himself most in VMC.

No?

Well gang it looks like I am out numbered here, and I will admit I have not done a good job in pleading my side of the case. I never felt like fozzy was set up to fail because of the risks involved, because no matter what Kermit and the gang backed him up. In VCMM even Fozzy doubts that his old pail is really behind him....

"I know any moment you are going to remember how I let you down"!

No matter how bad the jokes were on the Muppet Show, no one ever got let down, and i do not think Fozzy ever felt that way eather. Although they did nothing but boo and hiss at him, Statler and Waldorf actually supported Fozzy, with out them Fozzy would just be successful bad jokes. With them at least there are 2 people in the audience who are rooting for him, and with out Fozzy wat purpose do they serve. The connection was greater back then, and may be that is relly what I am really talking about here.