- Mar 11, 2012
- Reaction score
You are right. CFA can support the groups of their choosing. They could also give their money to any number of racist groups that would love seeing separate water fountains reinstalled. That doesn’t mean customers should tolerate their intolerance even though they have a right to do so. Gays have a different plight than African Americans, but both have faced faith-based bigotry. A gay child is usually born to straight parents and often lives in a needless climate of fear, confusion and judgment. A lot of us have to make our own roots.seismicmike said:We may not agree with them, but it's still their right to support whatever they want.
You’ve listed a lot of nonsensical fear tactics that are often used as propaganda against marriage equality. There is no rational basis for them and here’s why. A Catholic church isn’t required to marry Mormon couples. A Baptist church isn’t required to hire Presbyterians, offer them or their spouses’ benefits or grant them membership into their church. What would make any rational person believe that legalized gay marriage would change all of that? The LGBT community just wants equal rights, not special rights. Sure, you’ll always get some wingnuts that sue for this or that. Those people exist in all arenas. They are the exception, not the rule and their claims are certainly nothing worth perpetuating. The American home has always been considered sacred ground led by the head of the family unit. I don't know much about homeschooling but I do know it's a popular choice by religious families. I seriously doubt a curriculum shift of any sort.seismicmike said:I think there is a legitimate fear among conservative Christians that if gay marriage becomes law there may arise situations in which the law will require us to violate our conscience.
- Would the law require that churches are no longer be allowed to preach?
- Would the law require that churches be willing to perform marriages to gay couples?
- Would churches be required to hire gays?
- Would churches be required to ordain gays?
- Would churches be required to provide benefits to gay spouses?
- Would churches be required to allow gays into membership?
- Would the law require that home schoolers teach their children that homosexuality is not a sin and ban teaching them from teaching what the Bible says on the subject?
Christians have a lot more to learn about how gays perceive them than they do us. Trust me on this. Your viewpoint, however compassionate you perceive it to be, has not gone unnoticed. There’s a sort of “Green Eggs & Ham” arrogance that many religious people have that we reject the Bible’s stance because we haven’t heard it in just the right context. Most non-Christians I know don’t subscribe to the Christian belief because they do understand it and reject it at face value. Also, slavery and a lot of other kind of creepy things are actually permitted by the Bible. I prefer the Jesus bits. That book represents a culture and a time that no longer exists. Most rational people wouldn’t want to return to that oppressive era or its laws. Ack!seismicmike said:My goal is to simply show that Christians who believe that homosexuality is a sin are motivated primarily by conscience and not hatred. Slavery is an entirely different issue altogether.
Thanks for saying that. I wish more of America’s Christians would not only acknowledge that, but use that history of true oppression to better understand the plight other minorities face today. Instead many Christians cry about an imaginary “War on Christmas” and other such fictitious problems that would be a joy to have instead of true discrimination.seismicmike said:Unfortunately for Christians, we must realize that the cushy positions we've experienced over the last 400 years in this land has been the exception, not the rule.
Aw, this is a shame. Once again you’ve put gays next to criminals and pedophiles after you gracefully apologized for it. I don’t care it’s wrapped in love, scripture or bacon. It’s still offensive! I understand your statement of sin, but you’re also painting a picture. It’s one thing to disagree with a person. It’s another to insult them or to imply that their way of life will lead to national destruction like CFA did. That’s the part that goes too far.seismicmike said:You can be an everyman who's only guilty of a few white lies, or you could be a chronic liar, a homosexual, a white collar criminal, a bank robber, drug lord, gangster, or even the worst pedophile on the face of the planet. I still owe you love.
Aw, thanks. It was difficult for me being raised in Texas, but my years spent in San Francisco have proven to be the perfect atmosphere. Most people have it a lot worse off than I did.Jv I hope and pray you and everyone all over the united states get the rights they deserve. I've learned so much more myself from reading your posts. And at times reading your posts I just wanted to give you a hug because it's just not fair and Ill never truly understand what you face everyday. But I hope someday it will be fair. And people will no longer be just labels on a shelf.
Hope you weren't freaked out by the hug thing. Lol! And yes after you all get your rights they will find something else. It's a vicious circle I tell you. :/Aw, thanks. It was difficult for me being raised in Texas, but my years spent in San Francisco have proven to be the perfect atmosphere. Most people have it a lot worse off than I did.
I still think we should all be able to get along. I wonder who will be ostracized after gay marriage is no longer an issue. Society always finds some group.
Most of it is that it is becoming a prominent issue today, so people try to figure out where they are in that, and then fight for that. If suddenly divorce became a prominent issue, then everyone would be choosing sides for that...it just seems to be whatever topic is on the block...It is odd that it gained such prominence as a sin. It's really only mentioned a couple of times and not even by Jesus. I do think some of it is just that society is always a little uncomfortable with differences. And not because people are always bigoted; to a certain extent we are wired to be wary of differences. It's how we choose to react to that that matters.
That seems to be a good explanation. Thanks for that. That's the biblical scholar rationalization rather than the "it's written there, do it or else." Still seems more like a suggestion than a sin outright. More like a "you really shouldn't drink soda before you go to bed because it rots your teeth" than a "Yer goin' ta Hades, Grosso."A priest of some sort came into my religion class and answered such a question; he told us that homosexuality wasn't exactly a sin, but to have the fullest relationship with God, one should do it the compatible way he intended. I support gay marriage, but that was the first response I heard that was not just "It's in the Bible, so there!"
That's what gets me. Where is the part where religious scholars pick the thing apart and explain how they interpret the Bible. The Jewish religion has a companion to the Torah that does just that. Why aren't we getting our religious teachings from religious scholars, who's job it is to study and help interpret the Bible? Like a more objective Cliff notes.It is odd that it gained such prominence as a sin. It's really only mentioned a couple of times and not even by Jesus. I do think some of it is just that society is always a little uncomfortable with differences. And not because people are always bigoted; to a certain extent we are wired to be wary of differences. It's how we choose to react to that that matters.
Sometimes people don't actually realize they're being offensive, even when they aren't. And sometimes not realizing they're offensive is the best they can do for tolerant. That seems to be the case here. I never understood the whole comparison to pedophilia and bestiality, especially since one can be a straight pedophile or bestial for an animal of the opposite gender. I don't get where this guy's treatment of it as a crime comes from, but I'd wager its some cultural thing that needs to evolve.Aw, this is a shame. Once again you’ve put gays next to criminals and pedophiles after you gracefully apologized for it. I don’t care it’s wrapped in love, scripture or bacon. It’s still offensive! I understand your statement of sin, but you’re also painting a picture. It’s one thing to disagree with a person. It’s another to insult them or to imply that their way of life will lead to national destruction like CFA did. That’s the part that goes too far.