Download the Muppets' Oz Teaser Promo

[The Good Doctor]

Listen, I've been a HARDCORE rabid Muppets fan since the early 80's...Ive been on here since 1998. I have lived, breathed and ate Muppets my entire life. So don't you think that I can sense when a ship has been sank? I've posted countless posts how I feel there is still hope left for our beloved Muppets. Yet one cannot help notice that the magic has relaly been drained out. I'm not slamming the door shut on the possibility of a Muppet ressurection of some sort...but in this, the 50th anneversary of the Muppets, I just don't see much to be excited about.

Oh how I wish JHC still had them, and had been bought by a good company...both JHC and the Muppets. I wish a lot of things, I don't wish what is going on now.

Gang, I know I have posted some very dark and negative thengs here, and in other forums on other topics as well. I think we are mostly feeling that the magic has been drained out. And I know that we are all concerned for our friends the Muppets. And like myself many of us have personal issues which hold heavy influence over our responces here. But fighting with each other, pointing fingers, and being mean does not help much.

It was said that Jim Henson had the ability to see wonder in fair off crazy directions, and then get people to fallow him there. And that is truly the hardest part, because like a ships captain the Muppets have lost there 1 solid leader. And we do not know what direction they are going in, like a divorce things are unclear and up in the air, there is no clear path. That is really scary, buecause we can all still see the wonder in those fair off crazy directions, but we are having a hard time getting there. Just as the Muppets them selves are like a family, also too are the fans like a family. We need to respect eachothers feeling, understand that we are all going through this together, and recoganize that we will have our own fears and opinyons.

And above all that is ok, so lets take what we have got and fly with it.

 

[Lug]

Man, this is why the output from the UK sucks....... Thats the mentality that is crippling Hensons UK.... anyway, none of the above will make any sense if you were not there, but if you happen across KC one day, tell him I said hi,

Brian, get your house in order man, its falling apart. Especially over here in the UK...

I will indeed tell him you say hi Craig. It's the 'Camden Mafia' here feeling that someone needs to respond to some very damning statements you've made.

I am not allowed to comment on the state of The Muppets, and everyone here is entitle to their opinion and that's how it should be. But with regards to the way Henson works in the UK and the way in which we cast, I have a lot to say.

I know exactly who you are referring to in your post and I just want to remind you that he has only cast, with me, on one other production since 1995. All casting and decisions since then have been done by myself and the production's producers and directors. It is far from a Mafia organisation and more like the UN. There is no one person deciding on who should be used and invariably there are auditions.

If certain people do not even get the chance of an audition, there are usually three reasons behind this: 1. That we know they are already unavailable 2. I know they are not suited or don't have the vocal range for the characters we are looking for or the production in general and 3. because they may have given themselves a bad reputation in some way. For every one 'unhappy' puppeteer I can name you several extremely happy one's.

Remember that I was one of those who encourage you and even came to see you when you were working on location. If you want to know why you may not have been contacted then maybe we should discuss that privately.

So are you saying that every production, whether a Henson television production or with another production through the Creature Shop has been bad since 1995? Or are you saying that the performances in them have been bad? Of course, I'd have to disagree with you on both counts. Otherwise we wouldn't have BAFTA nominated Mopatop's Shop, Construction Site and BAFTA winning The Hoobs, to name but three. Time has moved on and the company has had to too. We did some fantastic work - if I say so myself - on Hitchhiker's Guide. We had a great deal of fun - and critical acclaim from our Scissor Sister's gig at the Brits. We never stop doing commercial - both physical and digital - most of which the public are probably not aware we have done. We've just completed the physical and digital effects for The Water Giant (feature film) and are now embarking on our first full CG children's television series. Many forget that this is the vision Jim had. He loved technology and we're now living his dream. (Does this sound like a company "falling apart"?).

As for puppet based shows, they have become much harder to create and sell and with the Muppets now at Disney, the company have the difficult job of creating puppet based production that cannot be seen as 'Muppets'.

No company is perfect and with the rose tinted glasses of our past everyone can look back and always think "Things were different and better then". Well, I was there then, and I can tell you they weren't. They may have been different. Different because it was all new to the UK and exciting. It's a much harsher world in production now and without Jim you no longer have a foot already in the door.

We all must be careful not to confuse injustice with bitterness because things haven't turned out the way we'd like them to. We should be careful where and how we voice that bitterness because you never know who might be listening.

I'll be seeing Brian next week and I'll pass on your comments and thoughts.

 

[Craig Crane]

"We all must be careful not to confuse injustice with bitterness because things haven't turned out the way we'd like them to. We should be careful where and how we voice that bitterness because you never know who might be listening."

I know who's listening. I know whos reading. Thats why I posted. Im not bitter. I am just feeling very very reflective. And with that you have to put up with my "maybe to honest for my own good" ramblings.

Maybe this post is also going to haunt me. Still, its out there, and I think the damage may have been done a lot further back than just my Birthday post.

OK, Hi Mak, I hope you are well. Its been a long time.

A few weeks after I posted the original post, I realised infact that that I was to blame for a lot of the comments that I was directing in every direction other than my own.


looking at the severity of the word Mafia, and all that it entails in the true sense of the word, it may have been misused to some extent. However, I can openly say that the term was not coined by myself. Its a terminology I have picked up along the way. But I guess when your sadly on the outside, looking in, it can appear to look that way.

Yet, I do indeed feel that Hensons is a little closed. Naturally, in any field where the pickings are a little slim in terms of juicy projects (opposite to the mid to late eighties where the UK seemed to enjoy a gammut of projects), it seems that the same old names do indeed seem to pop up time and time again.... And Im not the only person who feels the same way as I do. There are some very talented people within those names.... I dont mean to question anyones ability. Im just hyper critical of not just other people, but of myself as well at times.

But thats a topic that I think if it is to be resumed, should remain on a one to one basis, as you suggest.

Anyway, you cite 3 reasons why people dont get a call. One reason caught my eye....

3. because they may have given themselves a bad reputation in some way. For every one 'unhappy' puppeteer I can name you several extremely happy one's.

Oh, I am so a member of this faction. I also know why... I started of with so much joy and love for what I was attempting to do..... 1990 was an amazing year, that was just so Muppet orientated for me. I just digested everything and anything related to Hensons. I used to watch everything and anything. This was a time before the internet, so you had to really look hard for stuff. I literally spent an entire weekend in London and the flea markets looking for OF MUPPETS AND MEN. I was just so dam desperate to get a foot in the door. I was free from college (Dance), I was able to work in a place that tolerated my mis-use of their communications infrastructure whilst I used the phones and fax to pummel at the doors of Downshire hill. I just loved that entire process. Getting my first gig with Ron Muek, then an Ad at hensons, the movie.... the workshop. I really felt like a kid, and was ever gratefull that things were looking good, if a little slow. But the industry was getting depressed at the same time, and there just wasnt the work available. But I still hoped that something would happen.

CG came along, and I was able to utilize puppetry with CG in real time, and that lasted for almost a decade... so I was doing ok. But I think maybe somewhere along the lines two things happened.... I got the wires of SHOW and BUSINESS slightly crossed and generated a wee short circuit. I did find saftey in the comfort of Nickelodeon here in the UK, which seemed like a good idea at the time, but certainly took its toll on me. NOTE TO ANY ASPIRING PUPPETEER.... STAY AWAY FROM CABLE TV AND REALLY LONG TERM CONTRACTS UNLESS YOU HAVE THE STOMACH FOR VACUOUS CONTENT THAT ENDS UP FEELING LIKE AN OFFICE JOB. Nickelodeon took an awfull lot out of me, including a small part of my soul in some way.... I somehow went from being a 24 year old full of real guts and determination, a great Kevin Clash experience just behind me and the hope that the call would come soon to a grey'er, fatter 34 year old who couldnt give a toss. What went wrong???? I guess I only have myself to blame. How the **** did I go from a happy chappy, that loved puppets to the person that wrote the post on the 13th of feb 2005? Well, a lot can happen in 15 years I 'spose.... Cable TV **** for one... I guess that bred the contempt that may be evident in some of my ramblings.....

But remember, I do start this latest post with an acceptance of blame...


"Remember that I was one of those who encourage you and even came to see you when you were working on location. If you want to know why you may not have been contacted then maybe we should discuss that privately."

Indeed. Im sure my contact details are on this forum somewhere.... I would like to do just that. I remember that day on Location very well, in fact, both you, Brian and the other person you refer to in your opening paragragh were all highly instrumental in me getting a foot in the door. You in particular were a great inspiration to me, an aspiring, young puppeteer. You were generous, full of worthy comment and great teacher.

I have no problem airing my views in public, and I think its now only fair to let the forums readers see just how to blame I am for the downfall of my own dream....

I Can pinpoint two occassions where I did myself a huge injustice and commited some bizarre form off puppetry Hari Kiri. Long time ago, I know, but Sh*t tends to stick....

Yes, if you hear that a person would rather not audition you (as I did in 92), its best to leave it at that and not put pen to paper and let loose an acidic attack on that person...... Just not a good idea..... Trust me, it was not a nice letter kids. I just snapped!

Still, one thing I am glad of is that I did make my sincere apologies to that person, who I had prejudiced so ****** badly..... The irony of it is that whilst I was making my apology, he was busy making (Un-beknownst to me) George for the Rainbow re-launch...... quite possibly the most satisfying thing I worked on, besides Kevins smashing workshop that was full of promise in 94. So, I had just apologised for my actions of the previous year, and everything was going swimmingly. I was assisting this very talented puppeteer, whilst he manipulated Ex\Prime minister John Major on Spitting Image.... I learnt a very valuable lesson that day for sure as him and I worked together.

Perhaps then walking out of the show a few weeks later meant that although I had learnt one lesson, I still had a few more to learn.... and not having anego was going to be a really hard lesson to learn.... your never as good as you think you are, and when someone offers you a 2nd series, but with no increase in what was already a really crappy wage, just accept it.... please....

Shortly after me making my very sincere apology and my leaving the show, John Thirtle (the puppeteer I attacked the previous year and humbly apologised to a year later passed on. Im so glad I had the chance to apologise and see how gracefull the man was in the way he dealt with crappy old me and my then contacerous ways.

Most people only know the one side of that story, which is probably why I am an honoury member of camp 3

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"So are you saying that every production, whether a Henson television production or with another production through the Creature Shop has been bad since 1995? Or are you saying that the performances in them have been bad? Of course, I'd have to disagree with you on both counts."

**** no, I certainly would not say that was the case...... My comments were directed purely at the Muppets and Muppet type stuff. It was a general statement, that consisted of my thoughts and feelings at the time of writing.

Im just saying that certain things irk me........ seeing some of the fluff that was happening in the background of treasure island was a massive irk, especially when you hear from very reliable sources that the matter of me not being there was raised onmore than one occassion. Heart breaking at the time.

My Birthday outburst is a direct result of seeing the very invention that I based some pie in the sky notion of a dream vocation on suddenly become happy meal fodder over at Di$ney. I have no doubt that there will be plenty of Muppet centric work for those that want it. With Eisner out the door, we may even see some change in the direction and purpose of the muppets that may not have been plausible had he stayed..... But unless a mircale happens I really think the Brand is dead in the water. I was one of the few people Iknow that actually like the direction they took with Muppets in Space, and even e mailed BH to say so... It looked like the Muppets were good again.... and with talk of "An Audience with the Muppets" on the table soon after it looked like things were starting to happen both stateside and in the UK again. But it just fizzled out to nothing, until the OZ teaser which I have to say certainly did not have any of the charm of the older stuff. I shall reserve final judgement until I have seen it.... but the signs dont point to a wonderous muppet experience at the moment. Is it the writing? Is it the Direction? I cant say..... but it just seems to be missing something, or I have become so void of any enthusiasm for the brand that I actually make myself not want to like it. But I dont think thats the case, because I still love watching the older stuff.....

Infact, if I didnt care for the brand, I would never have said a word..... Maybe im more passionatte about it than I care to admit.

The other stuff coming from the Creature Shop is awesome. The digital stuff is on a par to the best digital post houses around. They have come a long way since the weak start with Lost in space. A very long way. The creature stuff is still by far the standard to which all other studios find hard to attain... and I look forward to seeing HGTTG... for its digital and practical content.


So, with that in mind, I admit that I have not carried my self at times in a manner that befits the requirements of a Puppeteer at Henson. Fair game, I say. I have only myself to blame. Blasting John T and saying the things I said at the time, when I actually knew nothing about the man was a low point for sure. Staying at Nickelodeon for sooooo long was not a wise move for far too many reasons that I just dont want to get into it here. Not learning CG in 94 when I had the chance and waiting a whole six years before delving into the joys of a virtual X,Y & Z enviroment is another regret of mine..... But just as old blue eyes sang... "Regrets, Ive had a few"

I totally blew my last audition. I now know why, I felt sooo under pressure, because I convinvced myself that my negative attitude and past mistakes preceded me in such an enviroment, and I just caved at the first hirdle. It was like a cancer eating away at me durring the entire process. I really was fighting a losing battle, and all I could see at the time was the me of 1990 wondering what the **** I was doing. I was sooooo desperate to work in Iceland for 9 months that I actually forgot why I wanted to work in Iceland for 9 months.... and the rot set in. All the regret, disdain, blame and self impossed insecurity that was festing whilst I was at Nickelodeon wondering where the **** I went wrong came to the fore and needless to say..... it was a horrible horrible day.



But, with all that said and done, it is in my opinion that the Muppets should never have ever left JHC. Put them on the shelf for a few years for sure. Retire them. But please, dont hawk them round to the highest bidder, whore-ing them out to Di$ney... They are NOT Disney's The Muppets. They were, and always should be Jim Hensons The Muppets. Even if they are not being used as much, they would always be the way they were meant to be remembered. Not some brand that can be diluted down to a few TV specials and a lifetime of McHappy meals.

The following is just my opion.... Everyone is entitled to them.

The muppets was always refered to as Jims Legacy. At the time of his death and there after, it was not uncommon to see the words Muppets and Legacy is the same sentance. Call me old fashioned, but to me, a legacy is something that should remain in the hands of those entrusted withh it, be it a house, a car, a large estate, Gold, a world renowned brand and associatted I.P's....A legacy is just that. Its a legacy. Its not to be bartered, passed on to a bunch of yes men and accountants. It has to be preserved, protected and developed. If it cant be developed, the option is always there to retire the assets, knowing that the legacy thrives in the hearts and minds of it fanbase. Waiting until suitable material is available so that their creative and entertainment potential can be once again realised.... In the mean time, the brand can be exploited via its back catalogue and associated products.
Im sure on Paper, the disney deal looked great. Most deals do.
Not one person I know, when hearing the muppets had been sold on the two occassions thathad been said "Oh, thats such a great idea!". Not one.
Can you ever see Disney selling Mickey and Minnie? Donald?
Would WB ever sell Bugs? Daffy?
We already know that Toy Story 3 is going to be a donkey compared to what it could have been in the hands of Pixar....
You see, when you look at it that way, with other brands well known I.P's, you just cant see them selling them.

Still, to me, the Muppets will forever be Jim Hensons Muppets, and that is why my exhaustive collection stops dead at Treasure Island.

I wish Brian and all JHC all the best for the future, no matter what is on the production slate, but no matter what transpires there will always be this knowing void at JHC that was once occupied by the companies flagship brand.

I think it was a bad move upon reflection (yes, I did actually email Brian at the time it was announced and I do seem to remember that at the time I thought it was a great idea... but upon reflection, I no longer feel that way).I dont think I am alone in this.


Wow, I really am still passionate about the Muppets after all.....

 

[ravagefrackle]

dude wow what alot of writing, but i think i can realte to alot of what you said(i was on the bulding end not the puppeteering end which if you rlooking for good money and stability is not really the end to be on)
but i to had my share of disapointments in the last days of the workshop, and it took quite a while to get over that stuff,but i had some great expiriences as well , it sometimes takes time to let those old wounds and disapointments heal, best of luck to you, we all could use some

 

[Lug]

Hi Craig,

You make very valid points and I think we should get together to chat over a cup of tea and a sticky bun. I'll drop you a line.

As for the Muppet's, I really cannot comment, for obvious reasons. I will only say that it was a very sad day for all of us. Let us not forget, however, that this is a move that Jim himself wanted back in the early nineties and had it not been for his tragic death, the Muppets would have been a part of Disney for almost 15 years already.

On the point of the London end of things being 'closed' because of a limited number of places, you're right, to certain extent. But I want to clarify this for others out there and especially for those looking for a career in this field. Just remember how closed it is in the States. Look how many of the same old names you see in productions there. It's bound to be this way. When we find people who are good we stick with them. This doesn't mean we don't look for new talent and we still hold workshops every two or three years. The problem is that there are less puppet based productions, so at present it's silly to look for new talent who then we can't find work for, both in hand puppetry an animatronic puppetry.

The other reason for using the same group is because we don't have the lead up or rehearsal time we once had, so you go for people who you know and who know one another... as well as because they're the most talented. Having said that, the past three TV productions haven't used the same people at all and there are only three puppeteers, Mark Jefferis, Brian Herring and Sue Beatty, who have performed on two of them. (Not including myself of course). That's three out of 13 pupeteers.

As for feature films, well, we thought we'd seen the last of the big puppeteer intensive productions until Hitchhiker's came along. That utilised those we had nurtured in TV productions as well as some old names - because they're the one's with the animatronic experience to the level we needed - and some brand new talent. So whilst it may appear 'closed' it isn't, certainly not to the extend it might seem. We probably use more - and actively search for more talent - than the US.

If there are those out there still want to 'follow their dream', then follow it. Just make sure your dream is one about the future and not the past and takes into account a few 'realities'.

Best wishes,

Mak

 

[Craig Crane]

I seem to have hijacked this thread, so I shall continue my original conversation with Mak in a more condusive enviroment and gracefully hand the thread back to its original topic.

Craig

 

[Beauregard]

And here to help move the topic back to it's original track...

Mwoo! Mwoo! The rest are only moos.

 

[Violia]

I'll hold my tongue 'till I see it.

 

[ftnpro]

2 Sides of the Muppets

The recent made-for-TV Muppet productions certainly don't have the slick look of the movies (gosh, remember how cool Muppet Christmas Carol looks?). But I think It's A Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie and Muppet Oz are pretty good examples of the shot-on-video, kind-of-cheesy-special-effects genre. They're more hip and goofy and not as touching and hearfelt, kind of like the goofiness of the Muppet Show vs. the message of the Muppet Movie.

Oz won't stack up to the Muppet Show, of course, but it'll sure as heck be goofy. Maybe if we all buy the DVD, we'll get another high quality movie someday. Hey, I can dream, can't I?

 

[muppetsforlife]

Nothing wrong with dreaming. I'm still holding out hope for a muppet theatrical release as well. Its been almost 6 years now