COVID-19 Coronavirus News and Updates

[MWoO]

So just asking out of curiosity: how can universal/free health care be implemented here? I am aware that many countries have a free health care system (EXCEPT America), but I haven't looked into how their systems work.

So first off, it is not free, it is tax payer funded. Free implies no cost. There will be a cost in the form of higher taxes. Even Bernie Sanders pie in the sky plan of taxing billionaires 90% would include higher taxes for people earning as low as 29,000 a year.

Second. Canada has socialized healthcare. Wait times are WAY longer for what we would consider routine procedures.

Third, there are two studies that usually get pointed to when it comes to healthcare. One is a WHO report that ranked the US 37th next to Slovenia and Cuba. The study the report was based on how well the healthcare system IS doing compared to how well it COULD be doing. So, while we are 37th on the list, that does not mean that we have a bad healthcare system. Basically, it's like if you go to two restaurants, one is McDonalds and the other is a 5 star burger joint. McDonalds is far more efficient and cheaper, but that doesn't mean you get a better burger.

The second study that ranks the US 11. It was based on data surrounding overall health of the population, infant mortality rate, and life expectancy. Obviously the US has an overall health issue that has nothing to do with actual healthcare. There is far too much fast food consumption in the US. We like portions big and we like sugary fatty foods. The problem is food is (at least prior to the current crisis) in such abundance in the US that we have an obesity problem. We also tend to keep people alive longer with health issues. Infant mortality rate is slightly higher partly because we measure infant deaths that other countries do not. Premature babies born less than 21 weeks of age are considered live births that resulted in death if they do not survive. Other countries count these as still born babies so they are not added to the numbers. Also, the US has a higher rate of infant injuries, mostly because of parents not following certain guidelines.

The US has a much higher rate of survival of terminal illnesses like cancer. You are twice as likely to die of breast cancer in the UK where 1 in 2 die. In the US its 1 in 4. Prostate cancer? 57% die in the UK. US? 20%. This holds for most terminable illnesses. Survival in the US is higher.

So yeah... "free" does not mean better.

Also... the US leads the world in creation of new drugs, publication of medical research papers, etc. Makes sense when you look at our illness survival rates.

Does this mean that the US healthcare is perfect? Nope.

Expenses are way too high for things. Partly because we made a habit of suing the crap out of each other in this country with slap suits. This drives up the cost of doing business for hospitals. Malpractice rates shoot up. Doctors need to be paid more to then pay their insurance. College Tuition has been inflated due to the influx of government money in the form of loans. Again, this means doctors look for higher wages to pay off schooling.

Pharmaceuticals are higher here partially due to other countries putting price caps on US drugs. Canada, for example, pays for all prescriptions. They will also refuse to purchase drugs that they deem too expensive. They will literally not buy drug that could save lives if the cost is too high. So what do US companies do? They lower the price so as not to lose the entire Canadian market. Same with other countries. So guess who makes up the difference? The US. We allow other countries to force our own companies to lower prices for their healthcare system. How about we do the opposite?

I could go on and on. In short, no we are not perfect, but as far as quality of care we are very high up there. Do we need to change the system? Sure do. Is socialized healthcare the way to go? Nope.

 

[D'Snowth]

Second. Canada has socialized healthcare. Wait times are WAY longer for what we would consider routine procedures.

And just about every Canadian in Canada has said that's nothing but a lie.

 

[MWoO]

And just about every Canadian in Canada has said that's nothing but a lie.

So... you spoke to every Canadian? Cool. Also love how you ignore most of the post to try to counter a point that you aren't even right about.

I got my info from sources, one of which is here: https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/podcast/2018/oct/truth-about-waiting-see-doctor-canada

Here is a portion of the interview with Christopher Hayes, the chief medical information officer at an academic and research health care organization in Canada:

"CHRISTOPHER HAYES: So I guess it’s — it depends on what do you think you’re waiting for. So if you are in a hospital and you need surgery you don’t wait. It gets done in — if it needs to be done in 30 minutes it will be done in 30 minutes. If you need an MRI for care provided in a hospital you will get it whenever — depending on where you are because not every hospital has an MRI, but you will be prioritized and that will happen probably as quickly as it can be done anywhere. It is as the priority drops or is deemed less by whomever that the wait — so the waits are how long will you wait to see a specialist after seeing your family doctor.

I mean, the one that people will talk about is cataracts, hip surgeries, non — not cancer type surgeries, where there — things will get worse if you don’t get treated. And so you can wait months for those surgeries."

Wait times are dependent on what you are waiting for. So life threatening stuff? Sure, that is prioritized. Other stuff? You are going to wait longer. Can't walk because you need hip surgery? Well that is elective. Can't see due to cataracts? That's elective.
So on and so on.... Sure, you won't pay as much for it, but you will suffer longer.

So again, "free" does not mean better.

Oh shoot... am I being toxic again by using facts and logic against someone who makes ridiculous claims?

By the way, Italy with it's fantastic socialized healthcare system has a COVID-19 mortality rate of 12.63%. UK? 11.15% US? 3.13%. Not so bad. Canada does have a 2.02% mortality rate, but they also only have about 17,000 cases where as the US has 380,000 cases so their system has not been as over run as ours.... yet....

 

[Oscarfan]

Sorry, but the worst thing you can say about Canada's healthcare is that wait times are long?

 

[MWoO]

Sorry, but the worst thing you can say about Canada's healthcare is that wait times are long?

Couple more things than that.

Wait times are long which means increase suffering. It's not like waiting in line at a movie. Do you want to wait longer for a hip surgery as you suffer and are unable to walk?

MRI machines are in much less supply than US.

The country literally will not buy certain medications that are life saving if they deem them too expensive which then puts the burden of making up the difference on the US OR they just won't buy them and Canadians don't get them.

Was I attacking the Canadian healthcare system? No. I was pointing out it's flaws and showing that they benefit from the US healthcare system in many ways. Also, if we socialize the US healthcare system you will see a drop in research, drug development (of which we account for a vast majority in the world), etc. So, let's say Canada can't strong arm companies into deep discounts when buying US developed drugs. Their costs sky rocket and ours would likely go down.

 

[MWoO]

Also, FYI, if you have those blue Scott Shop Towels at home you can make face masks that are more effective than surgical masks. They are about 54% effective at protecting you from others and more or less 100% at protecting others from you. Surgical masks are 39% effective at protecting you from others and more or less 100% at protecting others from you. Double the layer and the shop towel mask is apparently about 74% effective at protecting you from others and more or less 100% at protecting others from you.

And if you actually want to make them:

The double layer mask is not shown in the videos as it was not made by the same person who made the videos.

Just some info for those people that are scared of going to the store because they do not have masks or have the illness and want to protect others from themselves.

 

[MikaelaMuppet]

Oof, wishing all the best for him.



My love goes out to you for your loss

Sorry to hear that! Hope he recovers soon.

So sorry for your loss.

Thank you.

 

[D'Snowth]

The virus is airborne, yet stupid people are driving around stupidly with their stupid windows rolled stupid down. Stupid.

 

[LittleJerry92]

STUPID!

 

[MWoO]

The virus is airborne, yet stupid people are driving around stupidly with their stupid windows rolled stupid down. Stupid.

I don't think you understand how airborne viruses work.