The Bible and Love and Christians

[frogboy4]

So, I bumped this thread to post my new thoughts on homosexuality but it seems as if somebody turned this into a political discussion. Seriously, people, you've already created threads for this. Go rant about your hate for the tea party and hate for Rick Perry somewhere else. Otherwise, I'm not getting involved.

I didn't see where those had been shared. Did i miss it?

 

[beaker]

It just says that the US hasn't been entirely innocent. It doesn't mean there isn't a genuine terrorist threat. It's not a matter of one or the other. It's both.

Thank goodness. But it means we're lucky, not safe. Plus what about the Fort Hood situation?

I agree, thank goodness. I just can't believe how gullible or naive Americans are to just allow all manner of intrusive measures take place. Its like the terrorists won....the US is out of trillions of dollars, stretched thin and it wasnt the terrorists eroding civil liberties but the Bush and Obama government. Now all the groping/nude scanner TSA stuff is coming to every single NFL football stadium as well as more public events.
Israel doesnt do that, and theres not been any islamic hijackings or violence. Russia just has bomb sniffing dogs.

Yeah the Fort Hood shooting was horrible. Of course it came out that the Army knew Nadal Hasan was turning into a violent extremist and was corresponding with high level al Qaeda operative Anwar al Awlaki(the same Awlaki involved in 9/11 and whom the Pentagon had over for lunch with top brass after 9/11: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/10/20/al-qaeda-terror-leader-dined-pentagon-months/ )

I just wonder...cui bono...who truly benefits from all this "Islamic terrorism".
Who funded bin Laden. Who creates these intelligence patsies, moles, double agents and the climate for radical Islam. I mean just look what a massive profit industry the terror game has become, often shared with the very Sharia law oppulent gulf states who coddle Sunni extremists.

Of course I believe ultimately a much more shadow element controls both jihadi terrorism and the US/Western governments, be it at a covert or spiritual level.
To me the US government is often as wicked as the people they bomb. Given the White House is situated in a pentagram street formation, to me it all makes sense.

 

[beaker]

Just because he was bullied doesn't mean it wasn't a terrorist act. Again, it's not a matter of either one or the other. It's both.

Bottom line, I just think some the peace protestors lacked a sense of balance. They needed to say "Yes the US is guilty. But yes, there is also a terrorist threat." If they'd done that, people would have taken them more seriously.

I was more radical than most liberals during the Bush years. I'd wear a keffiyeh scarf
and show up to pro Palestinian rallies and would bring an "expose Israeli war crimes" signs to anti war rallies. I HATED how the liberals were only focused on Iraq. I often shouted "What about Afghanistan? Whats so right about that war?" Of course I also proudly carried "9/11 was an inside job" and "resist the new world order" signs.
Most the trendy liberal college kids wouldnt want us there, but we considered ourselves the real progressives marching for peace and opposing the elite.

In retrospect, it was more self puffery. I mean, it doesnt matter if you put up a giant billboard with the number of all the innocent Muslims killed by America and NATO...noone cares. I now believe its more important to, if one wants to, devote time to volunteering in homeless shelters or soup kitchens, or growing a garden or learning self reliance.

Ive greatly studied the protest era of the 60's. Black civil rights, the student/catholic/deserter anti war movement. post Stonewall. None of that magic really exists anymore, people are just pacified or misdirected(tea party)

 

[Drtooth]

Ive greatly studied the protest era of the 60's. Black civil rights, the student/catholic/deserter anti war movement. post Stonewall. None of that magic really exists anymore, people are just pacified or misdirected(tea party)

Or completely silenced by the mainstream media. The funny thing is, the same party that used the word "terrorist" and "9/11" to justify everything they've done (which bankrupted us, and pulled money from where it needed to be, only to be forced to slash budgets to continuously pay for the same stuff) is now using the word "jobs" to do everything from destroying the EPA, killing unions, and giving the rich even more money to blow on not hiring. Stuff they'd do anyway. Same concept. What really bugs me is the fact we're basically going after the president for blowing barely over half a billion on a failed company despite warnings... and the very same terrorist organizations we're supposedly fighting got more of our money than that. I mean, yeah.. it's great you actually HAVE a scandal instead of the made up ghost stories of birth certificates and whatever the heck Acorn did... but that's like washing a pair of pants with a 20 in it compared to all the no bids and rebuilding crap whe did there.

How come it's okay for us to blow billions of dollars rebuilding a country that doesn't even like us, only to find out the construction company ran off with the money, but it's horrible that we have to spend OUR own money to rebuild OURSELVES?

As for the difference between Afghanistan and Iraq... simple. We had proper warning about the invasion of Iraq. Bush was pretty much touting that as his pet project since the debates. No one paid attention. And even with the obvious scandal of the 2000 election, if people had any foresight, they wouldn't have voted for someone who was so bloodthirsty to go to war with a country that his father helped the dictator come to power. And if the Gulf War were so galldurn important back then, he would have actually gotten rid of him in the first place. Afghanistan was knee jerk. A knee jerk reaction of an unfocused angry populous. And that anger and fear was exploited because stuff happened. And that very same stuff will be held over our heads with each pointless anniversary. Not to mention the fact that it gave Bush, who EVERYONE forgot was talking about Iraq during the debates, unjust cause to go to war with a country because it's sort of in the same region. Even then, we should have just left after we killed Saddam and let the Chief Wiggums in the Iraqi army take care of it.

Seriously... why are we so heck bent on NOT coming up with an artificially made feul and oil substitute? I mean, hippy dippy EPA stuff aside, I am SICK of having OUR tax payer money and our standing in the world destroyed over Magic make car go juice. Why is it we don't have to buy books or CD's anymore because we can download it onto phones (which is killing jobs that would be lost to obsolescence anyway), but we're still slaves to the internal combustion engine technology we've had since the 30's? I am sick of going into the Middle East and making uneasy friendships with people we have to wind up going back after and killing. Really... give us artificially made fuel that Exxon and Mobil can gouge the price of and create phoney shortages of so we can finally turn our backs on that crazy area and use the money to fix our OWN problems.

 

[frogboy4]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread, and i know he's a touchy person to discuss because many Christians don't favor this guy these days, but Pat Robertson recently endorsed divorce if a man's wife develops Alzheimer's. Talk about insensitive - not to mention creating a slippery slope of excuses to help deteriorate the sanctity of marriage. That's just horrible. And what about the rest of the family unit that would be affected by the split? No one ever knows what the future has in store for us. That's precisely what makes vows vitally important! How could anyone not value or understand that? Maybe Pat and like-minded individuals should meet many gay couples i know who stand by their partners in the most dire of circumstances even though they are not permitted to wed. It's Pat Robertson's sort of selfish thinking that is deteriorating the fabric of a moral society. / soapbox

 

[CensoredAlso]

Pat Robertson recently endorsed divorce if a man's wife develops Alzheimer's.

Heh, and what if the man develops Alzheimer's?

And yes that is pretty hypocritical; to accuse others of messing up marriage while at the same time permitting others to that very thing.

 

[frogboy4]

Heh, and what if the man develops Alzheimer's?

And yes that is pretty hypocritical; to accuse others of messing up marriage while at the same time permitting others to that very thing.

I know many Christians don't listen to him, but it bugs me that a lot still do look to him for guidance. Many people have countered his argument by bringing up Christian conservative favorites Nancy and Ronald Reagan. Say what you will about politics, their marriage was a very strong one (albeit a second one).

 

[CensoredAlso]

I know many Christians don't listen to him, but it bugs me that a lot still do look to him for guidance.

At this point he's more of a media figure than anything else.

 

[beaker]

Pat Robertson is so westboro fringe to even the most fundie Christians, I'm not sure if he truly has any clout. I mean this is the guy who thinks God created the Haiti earthquake to punish them for voudou.

@Tooth: Oh man...yes. Where are these "Fiscal conservatives" with the black hole that is billions in "reconstruction" in Iraq and Afghanistan? Talk about a bridge to nowhere. But just like in the 2003 Freedom Fries/Dixie Chicks are traitor period, any debating war related costs is nil...again "gotta keep freedom free!" I personally don't think the public buys the terror thing anymore. They've played their hand, people have moved on.

Question: What issues do you think will be center stage in 2012 for the campaign?
I think Tooth is right in that the conservative think tanks manufacture Mccarthy era witchhunts and buzzwords to misdirect and fool a lot of people. The ultimate tricksters.
Like Van Jones, that is an amazing man who is dedicating his life to bringing true alternative energy and green jobs to both the middle class and inner city...and Glenn Beck turned him into some horrible person.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I personally don't think the public buys the terror thing anymore. They've played their hand, people have moved on.

The public should keep buying the terror thing; sadly it is very much real. They just shouldn't keep buying into the idea that the two party system is working.