The Bible and Love and Christians

[Drtooth]

Of course not.

But I will say it's ironic. Despite claims of not taking sides, the "left" often seems more than eager to defend the Palestinians above all others. And the "right," the ones that are supposedly so bigoted, are now the ones defending Israel.

They defend Israel because it gets them votes. And the whole Religious Right biblical prophecy crap. Anyone who takes sides on either side clearly has ulterior motives that aren't pure and or helpful anyway. left, right... whatever. The best position is I'm going home and playing with my own toys.

You get that both sides kill both sides and that only makes both sides want to kill more, right? its up to their OWN people to rise up and say they're sick of living in fear of getting blown up by idiot followers of BOTH sides, vote these dolts out of office, and move on so people can focus on their OWN personal problems.

I say the US should take care of it's own darn people before we have to play Big Brother to the rest of the world. I'd rather them help OUR homeless so they don't have to dig out of the trash for food, or worse, commit crime to get what they want than spend several times that much pumping up the economy of a country that's completely and utterly ungrateful and tries to blow us off the map.

 

[CensoredAlso]

They defend Israel because it gets them votes.

I have no illusions about that, believe me.

But I assume you have some criticism specifically regarding the Left as well?

Not trying to be rude, just asking. ; )

And maybe the US should just let the two of them fight. But in that case, Obama should not be asking Israel to change its borders. He can't claim to want peace and then so obviously throw one side to the wolves.

Again, amazing how the Left only seems to have a problem with Israel....

And it's all so transparent. Obama gets Bin Laden killed. Some of his left supporters didn't like that. So very soon after, Obama turns on Israel because he knows many of his constituents will like that (even though it means betraying the one democracy the Middle East has). Oh yeah, Obama's not corrupt and self serving like other politicans, not at all. Lol

 

[beaker]

Well my personal feelings are that the WBC should be kept far away from funerals, but in principle I believe their speech should be protected. Maybe it serves a dialogue, even though I know some use their insanity to try and paint Christians as intolerant. If anything, maybe it serves to bring people together to see what happens when extreme views are out in the sunlight.

@Drtooth: Bro, have you not seen that Obama is not just continuing but escalating the Orwellian Bush neocon agenda? Im sorry but not even under Bush were children being groped at airports under the false auspices of "protecting us from terrorists". The government is the real terrorists, and if there are some Jihadi boogeymen in caves theyre all allowed to do what they do. Obama is just a puppet of wallstreet, continuing the globalist hegemonic strategem worldwide. Bush got us into Iraq and Afghanistan, Obama got us into Pakistan, Libya and is dramatically escalating the war in Afghanistan. We should not let his empty rhetoric about gay rights blind us from what he's really interested in via his actions. In fact the Tea Party people who hate Obama should be worshipping him since he's going even beyond what Bush was doing.

Folks, this government used the Sesame Street song in torture sessions at Abu Gharib in Iraq. Not to mention broke all the geneva convention rules in torture/harsh interrogation methods.

As far as Israel, I have close friends in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, and I am always hoping for peace. I love both the Israeli and Palestinian people, and I am sad both sides have leaders that never see eye to eye.

I don't think Obama threw Israel under the bus, quite the opposite...the US pretty much just tossed a bone to some out there about the 1967 borders, but in reality the US is lock step in policy with Israel, AIPAC and will block a UN vote for Palestinian statehood.

This world is ran by some very wicked people in business, finances, etc and I keep hoping Obama will turn on these people and do what's right. To do what is moral, what's right for every day Americans and say no to the corporate hegemonic agenda.
I mean, the head of the IMF(an entity that has destroyed many developing nations) was caught sexually assaulting a poor migrant worker in New York...thats what these elites are into. I'm not Christian, but Im sure somewhere the Bible warns of this Satanic new world order evil that America, England and the rest of the world's oppressive governments are involved in.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I'm not Christian, but Im sure somewhere the Bible warns of this Satanic new world order evil that America, England and the rest of the world's oppressive governments are involved in.

I personally don't think the Bible's into politics. It's more into the individual responsibility of each person and how we live our lives.

 

[Drtooth]

@Drtooth: Bro, have you not seen that Obama is not just continuing but escalating the Orwellian Bush neocon agenda? Im sorry but not even under Bush were children being groped at airports under the false auspices of "protecting us from terrorists". The government is the real terrorists, and if there are some Jihadi boogeymen in caves theyre all allowed to do what they do. Obama is just a puppet of wallstreet, continuing the globalist hegemonic strategem worldwide. Bush got us into Iraq and Afghanistan, Obama got us into Pakistan, Libya and is dramatically escalating the war in Afghanistan. We should not let his empty rhetoric about gay rights blind us from what he's really interested in via his actions. In fact the Tea Party people who hate Obama should be worshipping him since he's going even beyond what Bush was doing.

I've said it too many times... the O-man is the biggest wuss on the planet. I'm glad he's in power because McCain would have had us ALL over the Mideast, ticking those people off, wasting our money, wasting our men and theres... really. The best case scenario with the guy we have is the glacier slow withdrawals. We can't pull out, we can't just pack up and leave, we can't stay... that's what our policy in the MidEast has been and always will be.

I'm sure he wants to do the right thing, but he has all these people he got under Bush as a pathetic attempt at bi-partisanship. If he's really the big evil commie hippie socialist dictator the Tea Bag wackadoos think he is, he would have grown a pair and said "Hey! You rent-a-cops want freedom? Do it your dang selves." but alas, he's too busy trying to appease the jerks that want to throw him under a bus so THEY can start 8 more wars with 8 more countries we should have just ignored in the first place.

But, hey... they can always vote for some pie in the sky ultra-lefty that would never get elected, and whine about how they got someone even EVEN worse who got us into Iran and Lybia and starts HUAC back up when anyone complains about it.

I agree. He did as good as he could with Israel, that PURPOSELY builds settlements on Palestine's side as a big huge middle finger. They're both idiots and WE'RE idiots for taking sides in their murderous snit fits.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I'm sure he wants to do the right thing

He's a politican. The right thing to them is getting votes, period.

I agree. He did as good as he could with Israel, that PURPOSELY builds settlements on Palestine's side as a big huge middle finger. They're both idiots and WE'RE idiots for taking sides in their murderous snit fits.

Well again, you say you're not taking sides, but then you seem to mostly blame Israel.

 

[Drtooth]

Well again, you claim not to be taking sides, but then mostly blame Israel.

Oh yeah, they do NOT do anything. They're innocent because something happened to them historically. NO! They're both to blame. Their governments are BOTH corrupt morons that want to take over the land and use all the biblical and historical mumbo jumbo to justify it, all the while BOTH sides scare their pawns into letting them do what they want to do under threat that the other side will attack them.

But I should be fair... Palestinian old fogies were so scared and stupefied by their own oil tycoon government that they voted for terrorist sympathizers to run their country. And lucky them, they're surrounded by idiot yes-men countries that deny the Holocaust because, like rival prom queens, they love to make up nasty little rumors about each other to gain sympathy.

I don't care WHO started it. Israel and Palestine's governments are two sides of the same coin. They rule with fear, they kill as many of the other side as possible, and BOTH sides claim victim! And here's another thing. The reason why Europe gave them the country after WW2 was because they were so sorry for being greedy little snots and causing WW1, then pulling Germany's name out of a hat and declare them the bad guy, leading to punishing them leading to Hitler coming into power. So basically, if they didn't get whiny and stupid about how each other country was making more than certain other countries (don't buy that Franz Ferdinand was was assassinated crap), Hitler would have been some pathetic loser handing out pamphlets that people would toss out after they're out of his view.

So all our miseries the last century was because of Europe. And to go further back, the Jewish people were displaced because of the Romans... so everything winds up being the Romans' fault.

That said, we did horrible, terrible, unspeakable things to the Native Americans. We plundered their land, we raped their women, and insult to injury, we made goofy cartoonish stereotypes of them that Ugh when they talk mock them in romanticized Cowboy movies. We were monsters to them. We fought them. Do they strap nuclear devices to them and blow up an Arby's? No! They protest Columbus Day and Thankgiving peacefully. I dunno about you, but that deserves applause. Too bad the Palestinian people can't take a war and people moving in with that sort of dignity.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I don't care WHO started it.

It feels like you do care though. I'm sorry if I'm mistaken and I don't mean to harp on this but that's how it's coming across. It does feel like you're taking sides.

 

[beaker]

I could list a thousand serious war crimes the state of Israel has committed from the 1950's. Doesn't mean I dislike Israelis, I often criticize all governments...the oppressive Islamic regimes of Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. The tyranical policies of communist China. I believe all governments who do injustice should be exposed, so I'm grateful for Wikileaks. The media makes a big deal about Serbian or Moamar Ghadafy war crimes, but is silent when Western or Western allied governments engage in similar behavior.

But here's the rub with Israel...it's no secret that there is a strong element in Palestine and their supporters who will never be happy. Israel could give them major concessions, but short of the destruction of Israel they wouldn't be happy. And sadly, there isn't much left to cobble together for a real state...so many checkpoints, criss crossing freeways, settlements, etc. I also suspect many Islamists who honestly care nothing for the plight of Palestinians simply use the cause to further their own agenda.

Now some good things I can say about Israel: They are one of the most women and gay rights equality areas in the Eastern hemisphere. They have an insanely rich cultural tradition that continues through modern art, music, etc. I myself have made it one of the top destinations I'd love to visit. I just feel sad that for various reasons, Palestinians are kept in a Warsaw Ghetto of sorts.

 

[CensoredAlso]

But here's the rub with Israel...it's no secret that there is a strong element in Palestine and their supporters who will never be happy. Israel could give them major concessions, but short of the destruction of Israel they wouldn't be happy.

Exactly and I'm concerned that Obama doesn't seem to get that. It feels like he thinks diplomacy and concessions are all it will take to get peace declared. Sadly it's not that simple. There will always be people who just won't want peace. What will he do then? I think he has no idea.

Now some good things I can say about Israel: They are one of the most women and gay rights equality areas in the Eastern hemisphere.

Yes exactly and again, it feels like Obama is undervaluing these things by his reaction to Israel (again, mainly to make his supporters happy).

I just feel sad that for various reasons, Palestinians are kept in a Warsaw Ghetto of sorts.

I do also feel for the Palestinians; it usually takes two to make a war and I'm not saying the Palestinians haven't been wronged in this one.