The Bible and Love and Christians

[CensoredAlso]

I'd be happy with leaving the Middle East to do as it wants to do, as long as its leaders don't violate human rights. On that issue, I am not at all confident.

 

[RedPiggy]

I have to agree with this. The Middle East hornets nest is thousands of years old. It's literally Biblical!

Indeed. It's not like WW-era Germany, where it's one little douchebag with an inferiority complex mad 'cause he flunked out of art school. There hasn't been peace in the Middle East since the serpent tempted A&E, LOL. I recognize someone might say this is stereotypical and racist, but the fact is, history proves that region is just one big fight. They must like it, as they never have ANY intention to stop. You could most likely make them all super rich with nary a care in the world, and they'll find something to fight about. I really don't think we can play games with them with the rules we're used to using. They operate on a whole 'nutha level.

 

[CensoredAlso]

They must like it, as they never have ANY intention to stop.

Well um, the oppressors like it. The victims not so much. There's obviously some desire for change if Egypt is any indication. But the people who genuinely want freedom and democracy continually get overtaken by the fundamentalist religious groups. It's often that way in revolutions; the most violent mobs end up taking over. People are held hostage by fear, both of dictators and of the extreme religious sects.

I'm not saying we can fix it ourselves overnight. But to just abandon those in need and return to our happy little sheltered lives isn't too honorable either.

 

[frogboy4]

Indeed. It's not like WW-era Germany... They operate on a whole 'nutha level.

Exactly. I'd like to say WWII was fought out of some supreme sense of humanity, but the world was scared as heck of the tentacles of Nazi Germany reaching their shores. If we're going to impose civil human rights through aggressive war then why don't we add China and Africa to the list of countries to invade? The answer is that we do what we can. American companies have entire departments dedicated to overseeing conditions in Chinese factories and most of the civilized world cracks down on conflict diamonds. It's not enough. It's all there is. I'm certain the US presence in the Middle East will radically decrease once we finally ween ourselves off oil. There are so many problems to fix here in the states too. Does that mean we don't do anything? Of course not. It just means we are limited in our options and none of them can solve the issues of human rights in the Middle East, China and Africa. That change must come from the people rising up against their oppressors. Once enough of them do that then foreign support makes sense. And, of course we must be invited! We have yet to see that happen.

 

[Drtooth]

Difference number two...ehhh... you all realize the only reason we got involved in WW2 was because the nut case that was running Japan at the time (same guy in charge when they were hasslin' China) ordered people to drop a bomb on us. Yes, for the best, we got involved with Germany and Italy (to a smaller extent) too, but our fight was with the guys who dropped bombs on us. Sure, there were little anti-nazi groups popping up in the US, pressuring the president to do something, but we didn't want to get involved. Once we did, we found out the extent of damage.

There is NO way to clean up the Middle East. Sure, we want to say, "we're the heroes, and we're going to give them democracy and woman's rights, and they're gonna LOVE us!" We also want to say, we can solve gang violence and shut the KKK up once and for all. We can't.

You see, I equate terrorism both as hate groups and gang violence. The only way to stop it is to stop recruiting. As far as the Middle East is concerned, every time we get involved, we kill a bunch of innocent civilians for every boogieman. The difference between when they kill their own people and we kill their own people? When we kill them, they use it for fuel and they recruit more. Everything we can possible do is a paradox. The only way to defeat a bully like them is to let them play with fire until they burn themselves, or just let the kids grow up, make their own decisions, and stop listening to the bitter hateful elders, who are absolutely controlled by fear and living miserably.

These people live the strictest for of Stockholm syndrome there is. The love the fact they're oppressed, the love the fact they can do anything they want to their women, the love the fact they're controlled by leaders, either hedonistic hypocrites or Dr. Robotnik (SatAM version) types that outlaw any fun. And the people are too scared to do anything about it. We WANT to believe we can fix it, but all we can do is make them the BIGGER hero.

 

[CensoredAlso]

We also want to say, we can solve gang violence...We can't.

Actually we have done it, by taking steps to eliminate poverty. We did it with the wave of European immigrants in the working class. As the children were given more opportunities for education and employment, many were able to move on from poverty and the potential for violence. The problem now is that the same opportunities aren't being offered to the working class today.

We also did pretty much shut up the KKK, in that they're largely all talk now. Loud, but pathetic.

just let the kids grow up, make their own decisions, and stop listening to the bitter hateful elders who are absolutely controlled by fear and living miserably.

And what would motivate the kids to do that exactly? They're living in fear as much as their elders. And they're learning from their elders, so just because they grow up doesn't mean they're going to make their own individual decisions. They're going to see themselves living in poverty and become just as bitter and angry as their parents.

 

[frogboy4]

I'm blown away at Republican Rep. Kriesel's surprising speech on gay marriage.

 

[frogboy4]

Just checked to see if this thread was still up after the move. It is! I'm glad!

 

[beaker]

See, it's only terrorism when darker skinned people with "funny names" stap bombs to their chests or ram a car with explosives. But if youre white and drop massive bombs and artillery from the sky, it's "spreading democracy". I've intimately researched for over a decade the horror and evil the US government, Western governments, corporations and allied governments have been behind. Besides the fact trillions of dollars and 6500 US soldiers have been needlessly killed in the last ten years(not to mention tens of thousands injured), countless innocent Muslim civilians have been killed, maimed or displaced by the US and western powers in that time. And for what I say? So mega corporations, private defense contractors and corrupt oil regimes in the gulf can get richer? It's a fact that the US government is in business with the very Islamic regimes who secretly finance groups like the Taliban, Iraqi insurgents, al Qaeda, and other Sunni extremists. That pretty much means indirectly US taxpayer money is going both to the war and to the enemies we're suppose to be fighting.

It's funny how Obama and Bush pretend to be Christian, and all these so called Christian conservatives blindly support the wars(except for people like Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan) These wars and to a large degree what this government does is nothing less than Satanic evil. And these wars are all lies. There was no WMD's or ties to al Qaeda in Iraq. I won't even get started on my true thoughts on 9/11, and the Libya war...shoot, Bush, Obama, UK, Italy and France were all business buddy buddy with Moamar Ghadafy as of earlier this year. It's all about the oil and western strategic hegemon. And China does the same thing, hence why they bankrolled the slaughter in Darfur Sudan. Sadly I've begun to think perhaps all these Arab revolts and revolutions are somehow CIA/Western financed, under the auspices of social networking.

Bottom line, we can directly trace the roots of most of the evils of this world to a select group of globalists. When I saw "The World According To Sesame Street", a jarring expose of war torn areas around the world, it was all the more striking in how many of these countries are the result of Western meddling, the IMF or World Bank and other shadowy situations.

Don't fall for the "evil Muslims out to get us" Orwellian propaganda...this is the same government that spent almost a trillion of your money to bail out these gangster banks who bilked countless Americans out of their life savings. And often the SAME banks who do dealings with dictators. As Lennon once said, give peace a chance

 

[beaker]

Why is it, when Democrats get caught in a sex scandal, it's an extra marital affair with a woman...yet when so called "Christian" Republicans(who virulently oppose gay rights on capitol hill) get caught in sex scandals...its with another man?(often, not even of legal age) That is the highly bizarre and ironic nature of the right wing political machine in Washington, and sadly the appeasing spineless Democrats aren't too far behind.

Polls continue to show a majority of Americans just don't care anymore about one's sexuality, as well as less and less opposition to gay marriage. The abortion issue I can definitely support/see both sides, especially the Christian standpoint. But I truly believe if God exists, he would smile upon two monogomous faithful same sex couples, far from the perversion some make it out to be. New York's gay scene in the late 70's and early 80's like many straight swingers scene was definitely something to not smile upon, for sure. But today, most Americans see that gay couples and folks are pretty average. And as Jamie pointed out, there's a portion of gay couples whom the Republican base is making a mistake in not courting due to financial/business/economic matters.

At the same time, I reluctantly do have to support the free speech of virulently anti gay groups like the Westboro Church...because when the government says who can and cant say what, it sets a dangerous precendent.

Finally, I hate to play this card...and I wont say who, but Christian Muppet fans who fundamentally are not happy with the "homosexual lifestyle" would be shocked to learn who over the years within Jim Henson productions and even the original Muppet performer core were in fact gay.