The Bible and Love and Christians

[CensoredAlso]

The abortion issue I can definitely support/see both sides, especially the Christian standpoint.

I think it is indeed important to see both sides of the abortion issue. I don't support abortion; but I do understand the concerns and worries of the other side (such as women not being able to support children). And again, I think much of this could be resolved if poverty was dealt with.

But I truly believe if God exists, he would smile upon two monogomous faithful same sex couples, far from the perversion some make it out to be.

I think if God made anything clear, it's that he's concerned with our compacity for love and compassion. Not for morally neutral things like what race or gender we happen to be. If two people care about each other and aren't hurting people, I don't think God would object.

New York's gay scene in the late 70's and early 80's like many straight swingers scene was definitely something to not smile upon, for sure. But today, most Americans see that gay couples and folks are pretty average.

Yeah that period was not a very prudent time, for both orientations, heh. I think we have learned a lot of lessons since then, though irresponsible behavior is still too prevalent (again, in both orientations).

At the same time, I reluctantly do have to support the free speech of virulently anti gay groups like the Westboro Church...because when the government says who can and cant say what, it sets a dangerous precendent.

I'm really on the fence on this. I know what you mean, if they censor one guy, they can easily censor you too. However, I also think free speech should be viewed in the realms of common sense. These people can easily do their nonesense further away from the funerals.

 

[frogboy4]

I'm not a fan of censorship, but I do think that there's a time and place for everything. I would support legislation that rendered funerals as a "sacred space" and that any demonstration not sanctioned by the next of kin would he held far away enough to be out of view to those attending the funeral. I believe that's a safe enough bit of legislation because it transcends politics or religion and merely pays reverence to the dead. I don't know any politician from any party who would object to such a law. Free speech is one thing, but you still can't shout fire in a crowded theater. There are limits on free speech when it encroaches on the lives of others.

I'd also like to see the US forces come home from the Middle East, but it's not an easy withdrawal. This country hasn't been attacked again and maybe there's a connection to troop deployment. I still believe this president would like nothing more than to send our soldiers home while declaring our safety from foreign conflict. We're so impatient. Things can't be fixed overnight. Why is it always the minorities that have to clean up the messes of rich white men? I'm not just talking about the President as much as the armed forces. I'm still amazed that anyone enlists these days!

 

[RedPiggy]

As much as it pains me, I think the WBC should get all the attention it wants. Pictures can say a thousand words. When utter idiocy is put up for public scrutiny, while it risks a bunch of closet idiots agreeing with them, a lot of people are going to see the ultimate levels of stupid that are being displayed. I would like to think the "sacred space" thing would work, but I have to wonder just how long it would take for someone to argue that not everyone feels that way about the dead. Out of all the reactions to that group I've seen, the ones that made me laugh the hardest were Comic Con's and the KKK's. I think both, for different reasons, had the right reaction: meet silliness with silliness. Fight fire with fire.

Now, I pride myself on being a practical woman, so I'm not pro or anti-military. I understand and accept that it has its uses. On the topic of the Middle East, however, it's so clear this is all a bunch of BS that every day I'm surprised this actually happened. It's not like the West caused conflict there. That region has been a violent mess since humans first showed up there. I don't even think the Muslim world really cares about Israel much, despite all the whining on both sides to the contrary. They clearly don't care enough to actually do anything besides take cheap shots, plus Middle Eastern economies depend on everyone taking sides and joining the fray. To create conflict is to create ratings is to create public interest is to create money. We support our peeps. Others support their peeps. One wonders just who is walking whom in this relationship. Is the West (the US) wrong for treating the region like a big ol' money pit? Is the Middle East wrong for offering itself up as a big ol' money pit?

 

[CensoredAlso]

I don't even think the Muslim world really cares about Israel much, despite all the whining on both sides to the contrary.

Sorry but absolutely disagree and that's why Obama's not getting my vote. I can't believe the way he threw Israel under the bus recently. It was inexcusable. He claims to want better things for the Middle East so he betrays the one democracy the Middle East has? Here's one US President that hasn't learned from history, to say the least.

That and I'm not seeing jobs become anymore plentiful. This man's never get my vote.

Not that Romney or Newt are either; I'm not giving my vote to fat cats.

As usual in a US election, it's a choice between evil and evil.

 

[Drtooth]

I'd also like to see the US forces come home from the Middle East, but it's not an easy withdrawal. This country hasn't been attacked again and maybe there's a connection to troop deployment. I still believe this president would like nothing more than to send our soldiers home while declaring our safety from foreign conflict. We're so impatient. Things can't be fixed overnight. Why is it always the minorities that have to clean up the messes of rich white men? I'm not just talking about the President as much as the armed forces. I'm still amazed that anyone enlists these days!

I still say what i said before and always have said. We should have stayed out of that crazy region in the 70's. There's NO WAY to get their stupid leaders to behave and their people to stop mindlessly following rich oil barons' spoiled stupid kids pretending to be clerics. The only way to change the minds of these people is to keep distance and slowly let the next generations, over a LONG period of time get bored and question things.

Now, I'm not going into the Bush did this, Obama did that thing (though, come on... McCain would TOTALLY have had us in Iran right now. He kept threatening it back in 2007), but we're stuck with 2 unwinnable quagmires, one was completely botched and the actual bad guys ran into hiding and gained support from the innocent bystanders that were killed, the other was a vanity project by the spoiled rich moron son of the guy who helped the guy we oh so had to get rid of in power in the first place. And getting rid of him made things WORSE! Now the only people on our side over there are idiot rent-a-cops that make Chief Wiggum look like Rambo. They're too pathetic and weak to overthrow their own idiot leaders, so we have to play big brother once again. And we look like villains when we do. And here's the best part... we can't stay in there nor can we get out. We're stuck. At least with the current guy, he actually wants to get us out of there glacier slow. McCain wanted us in until we "won." How can we win when there was no objective? After we dropped bombs on innocent people and managed to kill one Boogieman per 1000 women and babies, are we even going to get sympathy?

Much like THIS country, the darkest, evilest richest snots manipulate religion to control a mass audience too scared to question things. They feel safe when standing near absolute evil, because absolute evil creates an imaginary greater evil. There's no difference between the Taliban and the WBC in my mind. I'd love to say, "OOH! Free speech, and not letting vile people have it would be hypocritical," but who are we kidding? if those guys said the same stuff and weren't lily white inbred Americans, we would've thrown them in Guanotanimo and water-boarded them. Remember when we couldn't even say "Bush is an idiot" without retribution? How come they're so much better?

As for Israel... here's my thoughts. Both sides are COMPLETE idiots. Complete and utter idiots. There are 2 kinds of people in the world. people that want to pick fights with everyone and just need an excuse, and people who JUST want to be left alone. Both the Israeli and Palistinain sides are run by type 1, and want to make sure the relaxed, type 2 people get killed in their crossfire and become type 1's. It's been tank vs suicide bomber vs tank vs suicide bomber vs tank vs suicide bomber since the freaking 40's. And all because of some idiotic prophecies in each religious text that "god gave them the land." That can only mean God gave BOTH of you land to share... but the tiny little footnotes that contradict everything say you gotta blow them all up. Man, isn't it great to have to take sides with them?

 

[CensoredAlso]

Remember when we couldn't even say "Bush is an idiot" without retribution?

Honestly no, because I heard that all the time with no problem. Not that I minded, hehe, but just saying.

That can only mean God gave BOTH of you land to share...

I do agree with that; their war has gone on long enough. For the sake of both side's children, it needs to end. But the thing is, Israel actually has a democracy and hasn't been violating human rights. And there are people who would love to blow Israel off the map, along with its people. For Obama to be naively oblivious to this tells me what I need to know about him.

There's no difference between the Taliban and the WBC in my mind.

Except that one is mildly annoying and the other is dangerously violent, even to its own people.

 

[Drtooth]

I do agree with that; their war has gone on long enough. For the sake of both side's children, it needs to end. But the thing is, Israel actually has a democracy and hasn't been violating human rights. And there are people who would love to blow Israel off the map, along with its people. For Obama to be naively oblivious to this tells me what I need to know about him.

They do just as good killing innocent people who don't want to get involved, turning their families into kill zombies as the other side. No matter what side you take, you're doomed. It's BOTH their faults, and taking sides just wants certain people to kill us even more. Sometimes you just have to leave the playground, and let the bullies beat each other up until they tucker out.

I just LOVE how the right pretends to care to sucker votes out of people, yet don't speak out when they bring out the tanks that create suicide bombers that cause more tanks to create more suicide bombers. Jeeez! The freaking kids just want to live their lives. The only chance for peace is for them to all think for themselves and tell their leaders to stop blowing up the other side for retaliation for retaliation for retaliation.

I'd love to say something better, but I can't support either side until they BOTH stop acting like children (with bombs) and getting the US involved with their fighting over a toy truck.

 

[CensoredAlso]

It's BOTH their faults

The way I see it, it's also the US and Europe's fault for turning away the Jewish people for so many years. And Obama's not too far from carrying on the tradition with what he said. Our country does have some blame in this and we can't just sit back in the safety and comfort of our little bubble and assume we know better.

 

[Drtooth]

The way I see it, it's also the US and Europe's fault for turning away the Jewish people for so many years. And Obama's not too far from carrying on the tradition with what he said. Our country does have some blame in this and we can't just sit back in the safety and comfort of our little bubble and assume we know better.

So... we should go around saying, "Okay Israel! You have EVERY right to go around killing everyone in sight because Palestine has no right to do the same?"

You cannot fight a villain that gets stronger with each attack. Every time one side attacks the other, the other side grows stronger, in military and political power.

It's not the people... it's their idiot leaders who use them as pawns. There are NO CLEAN HANDS in history. And all the historical or biblical mumbo jumbo either side spews out, it all comes down to "MINE!" The ONLY way... the ONLY way to bring peace is for the people of these countries to grow up, grow some brains and dump their respective leaders. We can't help that. All we can do is take sides, let one villain get more influence against us, and NOT do anything to help. If kids join a fight between two bullies in the playground, all that happens is the fight gets bigger. it doesn't end, it doesn't resolve... the difference is, with kids you can call parents. With leaders, who do you call? Their followers.

There ARE lots of peaceful people living in these areas. Guess where they are? The crossfires. They get killed, their family gets angry, they take sides. it's counterproductive. We'll never get peace in the area until the people wise the heck up and stop letting religious and historical mumbo jumbo get perverted by their idiot heads of state. We can't help, we can't do anything. We can just say "Oh! Some punk strapped a radio and a gas lighter to themselves and blew up a S'Barro! You have every right to run over double, nay, quadruple the victims." That's not right. 2 wrongs DON'T make a right. it just makes creates a cycle of wrong.

This isn't a Jewish/Christian/Muslim thing... it's a 2 greedy moronic kids fighting over a fire truck in a sandbox and killing as many of their OWN people as possible to get it. Why should we step in when it doesn't solve anything?

 

[CensoredAlso]

So... we should go around saying, "Okay Israel! You have EVERY right to go around killing everyone in sight because Palestine has no right to do the same?"

Of course not.

But I will say it's ironic. Despite claims of not taking sides, the "left" often seems more than eager to defend the Palestinians above all others. And the "right," the ones that are supposedly so bigoted, are the ones defending Israel.

Ironic indeed...

I can't identify myself as either "left" or "right" because any meaning that was once there is gone now. Both sides are so blind they can't fathom that both of them might have valid points. Or that both sides can be wrong at the same time. Often.