Your Thoughts: Kermit and Miss Piggy on America's Got Talent

[Frogster]

The puppetry wasn't good, but at least Kermit didn't sound as flamboyant as Steve's Kermit. They have GOT to find someone who can act and do more than just bits about Piggy where the main part isn't just Kermit denying being with Piggy, or Kermit making awful puns about being a frog... awful puns belong to Fozzie.

 

[theprawncracker]

I... still can't believe that people are bashing Steve Whitmire after nineteen years. I... Wow. That's all I have to say.

Also, thank you to Phil for reopening the thread and bringing my post back. It really means a lot.

Thanks to Vic, as well, for debating.

 

[KermieBaby47]

I watched it late last night, very quiet so my Boy could sleep, and I thought, "huh, Steve is trying for a "Jim" Kermit", cuz it was deeper throughout. But then I heard Kermit sing "nobody knows it", (the sung word "knows" was very telling) and I knew right then and there it was another Muppeteer filling in for Steve.

But most importantly, I had already decided that I liked it, but I wanted to hear it louder. So today after work, I did, and I still liked it, and I still thought it was more of a Jim-ish Kermit. Sure, Kermit had very little dialogue and singing parts, and might've been more shy than usual, but think about it; here's this guy, who is a HUGE Muppet fan just like all of us here, who gets the unbelievable opportunity to do a performance seen by millions... who wouldn't be nervous performing our beloved Frog?

The only thing that really bothered me was the wall-eyed Kermit Muppet. Why has the eye focus been lost on so many?

My vote = Cheers! The new performer has most likely been working with Steve for quite a while, or maybe not? Who knows (if somebody knows, please tell us! ). I'm just really curious as to what Steve is up to... exciting new Muppety goodness?

 

[Frogster]

I'm gonna make this short and sweet...

Steve has turned Kermit into a borderline flamboyant frog for 19 years. During that time, Richard Hunt has passed away, Frank Oz left only to be taken over by Erikson, Brian Henson lost his brain, Disney tried taking control, and we haven't had a Muppet film in theaters for 10 years now. You guys who wanna support Steve and the others, go right ahead, but apparently the larger viewing audience (I'm talking about people outside this website who, to a certain extent don't care about Muppets much anymore) doesn't care to hear from them. And the television specials are terrible, and keep getting worse and worse. Not enough people care about the Muppets anymore, and it's because they're too juvenile.

Then you get events like last night... someone said something about trying to help a sinking boat float, well they were right. And if Whitmire had a problem with performing Beaker then he should stick to Rizzo or stop being a Muppeteer. People like Oz and Juhl understood the Muppets, not Whitmire, Erikson, and all these other new people. Kermit hasn't been cool since Muppet Christmas Carol... the true Kermit has passed. Whitmire's nothing more than some guy inside a Mickey Mouse outfit at Disney World. So why is everyone all ticked off now? So they had someone fill in... you guys should be more ticked off that the Muppets are reduced to only guest spots on reality television garbage or daytime talk shows. You should be ticked that this new junk is why Oz left. You should also be ticked that the world that goes on outside of this site doesn't really care because no one knows how to write or perform Muppets anymore. This isn't the 70's or 80's... there's nothing new, innovative, or wondrous about Muppets anymore. It's the same 'stuff' we've seen for way too long now. This is the new millennium where the only Muppet that's truly remotely popular is Elmo. If you've been more happy than disappointed over the last 19 years you shouldn't consider yourself to be an old-school Muppet fan.

I honestly meant this to be short and sweet so I apologize.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I do doubt whether these new attempts are really reaching people other than hardcore fans. You don't introduce an art form with something new and essentially untested. You introduce their very best work first. I honestly think making the Muppet Show and the movies more available to start with is the better way to go.

 

[frogboy4]

Now that (Frogster's post) was the sort of harsh comment that hurls accusations rather than commentary. I'm 35 years old and have enjoyed the Muppet Show characters all my life. I consider myself an old school fan of the Muppets (even though the "old school" term refers to Sesame more than the Muppet Show characters).

They're trying and doing very well IMHO. The YouTube and Muppets.com shorts are classic Muppet magic. That has to be mentioned when citing the state of the Muppets.

I like Steve's Kermit, but I do wish he'd find more of that soulful place in Jim's frog. I will admit that Kermit's been a little more one-note. It's not that he's "flamboyant" and I don't know why that term keeps getting put out there by Frogster. It's that he has less range these days. Kermit now starts at a place of excitement.

Eric is fantastic with Piggy and Fozzie. I can't imagine anyone doing better and no one will ever match Oz' puppetry. He's a genius.

The performance last night just didn't have much shine. There seemed to be many things going on behind the scenes. I'd rather have seen an improv. Still, a noble effort.

 

[MWoO]

[QUOTE:theprawncracker:taking on Kermit was not easy for Steve:QUOTE]

Apparently, so was taking on Beaker. Hearing how daunted he was to take on Beaker made me lose my respect for him more than his butchering of Kermit. I can understand being daunted by Kermit, as he's such an iconic character and so important to get right. But Beaker? COME ON! If you can't handle Beaker, you deserve to be shot.

If all you think Beaker is is a string of Meeps then you don't have much respect for Richards work with the characters. Anyone could do the voice, but the acting part, the reactions, the motivation, that takes work. Richards Beaker always came into the situation hoping for the best and always ended up with the worst. Beaker is a guy who can't catch a break and is tortured by his inability to let anyone know his true thoughts.

Beaker is actually harder to capture because he can only use body language and tone to convey his thoughts and emotions.

After watching the fake Kermit again, I can see why people think he sounded more like Jim in certain parts, but frankly that's not what matters to me. The performance it self was just not that good. For a regular everyday character it might have been just fine, but it's not a good Kermit performance. There was zero chemistry between Kermit and Piggy, Kermit's singing was pretty bad compared to both Jim and Steve, rushed is certainly a good word for it. If this was some whatnot or a frackle the performance would have been fine, but we expect more from the main cast.

As for those who just flat out don't like Steve's Kermit, all I can say is watch MCC. To me, Steve does poorly as Kermit during interviews and appearances, but in the movies and specials is does a very good job. Does he sound 100% the same? No. But Steve is a very good performer. He just can't seem to capture Kermit off the cuff. The scripted stuff is good, especially MCC and MTI.

 

[CensoredAlso]

If all you think Beaker is is a string of Meeps then you don't have much respect for Richards work with the characters. Anyone could do the voice, but the acting part, the reactions, the motivation, that takes work. Richards Beaker always came into the situation hoping for the best and always ended up with the worst. Beaker is a guy who can't catch a break and is tortured by his inability to let anyone know his true thoughts.

Beaker is actually harder to capture because he can only use body language and tone to convey he thoughts and emotions.

Exactly what I was trying to say earlier, thanks.

 

[MWoO]

I'm gonna make this short and sweet...

Steve has turned Kermit into a borderline flamboyant frog for 19 years. During that time, Richard Hunt has passed away, Frank Oz left only to be taken over by Erikson, Brian Henson lost his brain, Disney tried taking control, and we haven't had a Muppet film in theaters for 10 years now. You guys who wanna support Steve and the others, go right ahead, but apparently the larger viewing audience (I'm talking about people outside this website who, to a certain extent don't care about Muppets much anymore) doesn't care to hear from them. And the television specials are terrible, and keep getting worse and worse. Not enough people care about the Muppets anymore, and it's because they're too juvenile.

Then you get events like last night... someone said something about trying to help a sinking boat float, well they were right. And if Whitmire had a problem with performing Beaker then he should stick to Rizzo or stop being a Muppeteer. People like Oz and Juhl understood the Muppets, not Whitmire, Erikson, and all these other new people. Kermit hasn't been cool since Muppet Christmas Carol... the true Kermit has passed. Whitmire's nothing more than some guy inside a Mickey Mouse outfit at Disney World. So why is everyone all ticked off now? So they had someone fill in... you guys should be more ticked off that the Muppets are reduced to only guest spots on reality television garbage or daytime talk shows. You should be ticked that this new junk is why Oz left. You should also be ticked that the world that goes on outside of this site doesn't really care because no one knows how to write or perform Muppets anymore. This isn't the 70's or 80's... there's nothing new, innovative, or wondrous about Muppets anymore. It's the same 'stuff' we've seen for way too long now. This is the new millennium where the only Muppet that's truly remotely popular is Elmo. If you've been more happy than disappointed over the last 19 years you shouldn't consider yourself to be an old-school Muppet fan.

I honestly meant this to be short and sweet so I apologize.

First off it's Eric Jacobson. Second, he saved Piggy and Fozzie from disappearing. Frank Oz started to move away from the muppets during the Jim Henson Hour years. Notice how none of the characters on the Jim Henson Hour were Frank's, he only did guest spots. That when Jim Henson was alive and well. Frank started to move away from performing to focus on his own projects. He did the same in Muppets Tonight and he moved away from Sesame Street which has nothing to do with the regular Muppets anymore. Eric does extremely well with Fozzie to the point where he is even better than Fozzie was in the last years Frank Oz performed him. Eric does a good job with Piggy as well, though I admit Frank can still perform the pig better than anyone. He just has a very intense way of performing Piggy that is impossible to copy, but Eric still does well and did an amazing job his first time out in AVMMC.

Steve is extremely talented and his original characters were instant classics. Did he turn Kermit into a one note character? Yes, I admit Kermit is not as well rounded as he use to be, but to say Steve shouldn't perform? No.

 

[theprawncracker]

Steve has turned Kermit into a borderline flamboyant frog for 19 years.

...What?

During that time, Richard Hunt has passed away, Frank Oz left only to be taken over by Erikson, Brian Henson lost his brain, Disney tried taking control, and we haven't had a Muppet film in theaters for 10 years now.

You just insulted Frank Oz, ERIC JACOBSON (the ONE saving grace from last night), Jim Henson's SON, and the company that is bringing the Muppets BACK. Kudos.

You guys who wanna support Steve and the others, go right ahead, but apparently the larger viewing audience (I'm talking about people outside this website who, to a certain extent don't care about Muppets much anymore) doesn't care to hear from them.

Oh, yes, OBVIOUSLY. Because they aren't being booked on high-profile television shows like America's Got Talent. No, no, they're not garnering OVER FIVE MILLION views on their official YouTube videos (which I STILL don't think you've seen). Of course they're not running an extremely popular official website introducing them to a new age of fans while remaining true and classic to their original fans. They're definitely not recieving awards such as a Webby, Emmy, or Grammy. No, no, the public hates them, you're right.

And the television specials are terrible, and keep getting worse and worse. Not enough people care about the Muppets anymore, and it's because they're too juvenile.

...Whatever. Excuse ME, mister so called old-school Henson fan, but Letters to Santa was CLASSIC. It was brilliantly wonderful. Did you see that? Were you watching the same special? Did you witness the brilliant, elaborate musical numbers? Did you notice that Kermit, Fozzie, and Gonzo were a trio once more? Did you happen to hear the Electric Mayhem had more than a line each? Did you perchance notice that SCOOTER, ROBIN, ROWLF, THE ENTIRE ELECTRIC MAYHEM, BEAUREGARD, POPS, SWEETUMS, and LEW ZEALAND all appeared (most with speaking roles)? What the on earth isn't classic about that? Tell me, please. People don't care about the Muppets? WHATEVER. After Letters to Santa aired, I had TONS of people come up to me and tell me how much they LOVED it. Muppet fans are reporting non-Muppet fans coming up to them and telling them how much they enjoyed last night's appearance. The public LIKES THE MUPPETS. They always have. They just NEED TO SEE THEM MORE.

And if Whitmire had a problem with performing Beaker then he should stick to Rizzo or stop being a Muppeteer.

...Shut. Up. You obviously have NO idea what you're talking about. You have NO idea who these characters are. You have NO idea what it takes to BE a character. Any Tom, Dick, or Harry can do a Beaker impression and wiggle him around. Same with Kermit. But it takes practice and time and... wow. I can't believe have to explain this to you. Steve simply said that he didn't know where Beaker came from inside Richard. WHY is that NOT perfectly logical? WHY can't a performer take PRIDE in someone ELSE's character and dedicate himself to making it the SAME as before? Ridiculous, sir. Ridiculous.

People like Oz and Juhl understood the Muppets, not Whitmire, Erikson, and all these other new people.

Once again, you obviously have NO idea what you're talking about. If ANYONE understands the Muppets is people like Steve, Eric, Jim Lewis, Bill Baretta, and Kirk Thatcher. NOT you. Riddle me this, how do YOU understand the Muppets, and people who have worked with them for YEARS not? Unbelievable. I'm... just disgusted.

Whitmire's nothing more than some guy inside a Mickey Mouse outfit at Disney World. So why is everyone all ticked off now? So they had someone fill in... you guys should be more ticked off that the Muppets are reduced to only guest spots on reality television garbage or daytime talk shows.

SHUT UP! How can you say that? HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT? How can you...? Wow. WOW. How can you call yourself a Mupept fan? Steve Whitmire SAVED Kermit the Frog. Steve Whitmire IS KERMIT THE FROG. He has been for nineteen years, and he STILL IS. You just can't get off your high horse and accept the fact that Steve is GOOD. You just can't get out of the past and accept that the Muppets are a LIVING entity. They thrive on recasts WHEN A PERFORMER CAN NO LONGER PORTRAY THE CHARACTER. You need to get over yourself and realize that just because Jim Henson didn't do it, it doesn't mean it's not good.

You should be ticked that this new junk is why Oz left.

How do you know that? Hmm? Frank Oz has stated MANY times that he left to pursue his career in directing. It was a LIFE decision, not a spur of the moment, ****** off at the state of things decision.

You should also be ticked that the world that goes on outside of this site doesn't really care because no one knows how to write or perform Muppets anymore.

I'm going to say this now... but if you are going to post this CRAP, you should get off the forum now. I'm not the only one who's going to "attack" you for saying unfounded crap like this. Again, you don't know WHAT you're talking about.

This isn't the 70's or 80's... there's nothing new, innovative, or wondrous about Muppets anymore. It's the same 'stuff' we've seen for way too long now.

Go to Muppets.com and eat your words.

If you've been more happy than disappointed over the last 19 years you shouldn't consider yourself to be an old-school Muppet fan.

...Who the **** are you to tell me what I should consider myself? You do NOT have the authority to do that. You do NOT understand the Muppets--this post proves that. You obviously don't care about them anymore, so why are you still posting here?

This post is no doubt going to be deleted and I may be in trouble for it... but Frogster expressed his ridiculous opinion, I should be allowed to defend mine.