Your Thoughts: TMS Season 1 DVD

[BEAR]

Do we have any information as to why some of the songs were cut? Is it because they can't get the rights for it? Someone please answer this for me. Thanks. I want to be able to understand.

 

[MrsPepper]

I just want to point out: DISNEY NEVER PROMISED THE EPS WOULD BE UNCUT. What they said was "Completely restored and remastered". That means audio and visual, folks. Even GelflingWaldo posted on his blog The Muppet Newsflash that he hadn't gotten a straight answer about the eps being uncut. So Disney didn't lie. They didn't advertise the truth, but they were far from lying.

Possible reasons for cuts:
- Music rites
- Network rivalry (pitch reel) (see next point)
- Companies refusing to give rights. Doesn't matter the sum of money that's offered, they still don't have to give rights up
- Old masters being used (like how Vincent Price episode can be seen on home releases both uncut and cut

People in general:
If you refuse to buy the set, you are cheaping yourself out of a really good buy. You are messing up potential chances for more sets, since sales won't be as high. If your attitude is, "I'll wait till they get it perfect, then I'll buy", they you'll never end up buying. Things will always go wrong when it comes to this kind of stuff, and chances are you'll never be happy, or you'll never get a chance to be happy if future sets aren't made. Darnit, everything that's missing can be found on the internet by someone. So do muppet fans worldwide a favour: buy the darn set. If you don't you're messing up potential future releases, and then noone is happy. And just download the uncut ones. Sure the set won't perfect, but if you set your standards are set too high, nothing will be. And count yourself lucky we're getting this at all.

 

[That Announcer]

I just want to point out: DISNEY NEVER PROMISED THE EPS WOULD BE UNCUT. What they said was "Completely restored and remastered". That means audio and visual, folks. Even GelflingWaldo posted on his blog The Muppet Newsflash that he hadn't gotten a straight answer about the eps being uncut. So Disney didn't lie. They didn't advertise the truth, but they were far from lying.

This is where a straw-man argument may come into play. A straw-man, for those of you who don't know, involves stating a weakened version of an argument and attacking it, as you might do with a scarecrow. As MrsPepper said, Disney never promised that the episodes would be uncut. I'll give you a quote from Greg's site:

Will any skits or segments be cut due to issues with character or music rights?
This has not been 100% confirmed yet, but I’ve been told that Disney has worked on all the legal stuff to keep the episodes in tact. Although some episodes/skits feature characters that are owned by other companies or feature music owned by other companies, Disney wants to release the show uncut and hopes to do so. We’ll have to wait until the press release (or maybe even until the actually release) to know for sure if the episodes are uncut, but I’ve been told not to worry about this.

Hmmm, sounds like Disney really tried to get those song rights, wouldn't you agree? Also, they never said that the episodes would be uncut, but they said they'd try to make sure that they were. There was no promise on Disney's part to make the episodes uncut. So, don't accuse them of not trying, or of not trying hard enough, because they really did.

 

[MrsPepper]

Thanks, TA. Knew I could count on ya.

 

[That Announcer]

Thanks, TA. Knew I could count on ya.

Same to you.

 

[MrBlud]

Just a couple thoughts.

1) For the people who don't seem to understand the fuss with the missing musical numbers, how would you feel if Disney made the set faux widescreen? Just cutting "a little" off the top and bottom to make it fit a widescreen monitor?

2) I'm miffed about the missing stuff, in fact, I would've simply preferred a warning screen (this episode is missing "such and such song") be shown before the opening and then the skit in question would simply be silent or absent the song. That way we still get the performance even if it isn't the full one.

3) I'm still going to buy the set and I'm still going to enjoy it. The missing stuff isn't the end of the world, but I'm disappointed we don't get to see any of it.

 

[That Announcer]

1) For the people who don't seem to understand the fuss with the missing musical numbers, how would you feel if Disney made the set faux widescreen? Just cutting "a little" off the top and bottom to make it fit a widescreen monitor?

Well, I'd disagree with that, but it's a bit of a fallacy in that musical numbers are not missing from every episode, but matting would significantly alter all 24 episodes.

 

[MrsPepper]

1) For the people who don't seem to understand the fuss with the missing musical numbers, how would you feel if Disney made the set faux widescreen? Just cutting "a little" off the top and bottom to make it fit a widescreen monitor?

Making it faux widescreen would be the result of a choice someone would make. Having musical numbers missing wasn't a choice, it was a lack of options. I doubt Michael Eisner was all, "HEY, let's mess with muppet fans and cut out that last chunk off the Vincent Price episode!"
Also on an unrelated but amusing note, if Disney DID release TMS in widescreen, why couldn't they release MTI that way? Heehee!

Edit: spelled "chunk" wrong. ^_^

 

[dwmckim]

Okay...so the dvds have cuts. This is too late to change. So the practical question is...what do we do about them? To buy or not to buy?

My reccomendation is buy the dvds. Show your support for the fact that (cuts aside), Disney did largely try to put something very special together...how long have we dreamed for season box sets with all these fabulous extras?

BUT...if you are upset about the cuts...LET DISNEY KNOW!!! Write, call, email (or all of the above). Say that you are upset about the cuts and request that Disney work harder at obtaining the stuff that was cut and if at all possible to include the stuff that was cut from this set in future sets (One thing that i don't think anyone here has brought up...it may be possible that Disney did everything they could to obtain the music rights for the cut material but were up against time...they cut have held back the release date which they figured would make more people upset. Encourage them to continue to get the appropriate clearances and get the cut stuff available on future sets.)

I will say (and i encourage people to mention this when they contact Disney) that for the powerhouse lawyers Disney are supposed to have, they really dropped the ball here. Since these episodes were already made and broadcast (and in some cases released) in other formats, they should be able to make the arguement that in being that the permission had already been granted to use the music for the original episodes, that that in itself should suffice...that the rights were granted to use the music in that episode and that should cover any and all future airings and releases. I would also point out that you mention that a precedent (and DO use that very word, "Precedent") exists in releasing the episodes uncut, reminding Disney of the Time-Life releases.

I very much reccomend letting Disney know of your displeasure. When they release something uncut once, it gets very easy to continue the trend...they may have pulled some hairs in frustration, but when it comes around to season two (or season five) they may just shrug their shoulders and say "They bought 'em anyway, they don't care...why should we work so hard?" They should know Muppet fans don't like Jim's vision being mucked with. Flood them with calls, letters, and emails. But at the same time, don't forget to be polite no matter how mad you are. Thank them for releasing the dvd's to begin with...make sure they know the specific issue you're upset with and why. If your letter is too angry or disrespectful, they will disregard them as being from a lunatic; respectful, thoughtful letters get things done (especially when they're in mass volume.)

Finally to clear up some confusion...yes when (USA) Nickelodeon aired the Muppet Show they made some cuts, sometimes juggling the order of sketches and even mixing in stuff from other episodes...but these cuts were made for the purpose of time...they didn't have (or want to give) the full 25 and a half minutes...they cut down their episodes to 24 minutes and left six minutes for commercials (which to their credit is still more than most USA networks which allow 23 and a half minutes like the original syndicated versions.)

For what it's worth, when i contact Disney, i'll also be requesting that future box sets contain the Brian Henson intros and all the promos...and ask that the intros and promos left off this set be included in future sets.

 

[MrBlud]

Well, I'd disagree with that, but it's a bit of a fallacy in that musical numbers are not missing from every episode, but matting would significantly alter all 24 episodes.

A bit of a fallacy, but the intent is still the same.

We end up with less then 24 complete episodes.

As long as people understand BOTH sides are pretty much right.

It sucks the stuff is cut, but not buying the set is WAYYYY overreacting IMO.

Making it faux widescreen would be the result of a choice someone would make. Having musical numbers missing wasn't a choice, it was a lack of options. I doubt Michael Eisner was all, "HEY, let's mess with muppet fans and cut out that last chunk off the Vincent Price episode!"

Why not simply remove the song or, failing that, all the sound but leave the picture?

That would've been preferable IMO.

For what it's worth, when i contact Disney, i'll also be requesting that future box sets contain the Brian Henson intros and all the promos...and ask that the intros and promos left off this set be included in future sets.

Good idea, I'd also wish they'd leave in the skits even if they must remove the music.