Your Thoughts: "The Muppets" Theatrical Film

[Yorick]

Also... modern movie is modern. If you don't like modern movies in general, you might not like a modern movie.

But I think there's a way to make a modern movie that feels timeless...I would have really appreciated that from this film, but even so, it only had a few moments that felt "too-obviously-late 2000's/early 2010's". I didn't expect it to be free of such moments, nor did I expect it to feel 100% timeless, so I guess since I didn't get my hopes up, that's why I wasn't let down. I haven't yet said what I didn't like, or what I liked (aside from mentioning that I loved hearing Jerry Nelson do the announcing at the telethon!) but I did enjoy the film. It certainly isn't (in my opinion) as good as the original 3 Muppet films, but as you said, I didn't expect that, either.

 

[beaker]

^ This. It was the same thing Studio Ghibli did with many of their films, Spirited Away and the character of Yubaba being a huge example as such.

I cant wait for Miyazaki to make a good film again

You said "No one is EVER going to be happy with any Muppet film that isn't the first three," but I personally much prefer The Muppets to MTM; I've always found MTM a bit boring, mainly because it lacks an antagonist.

It's interesting as MTM is my #1 favorite Muppet movie, with The Muppets further down if I had to list favorites. I love the natural pacing of the original films, as it reminds me of modern indie films.

 

[frogboy4]

I guess this is about how mine stack up now.

1. TMM "The Muppet Movie" A+
2. GMC "The Great Muppet Caper" A
3. TMF "The Muppets" film B
4. MTI "Muppet Treasure Island" C+
5. MTM "The Muppets Take Manhattan" C
6. MCC "The Muppet Christmas Carol" C
7. MFS "Muppets From Space" F

MTM felt a little forced and gimmicky to me. It was like they were going through the motions. I would have liked to see more Muppets in the city, but those shots were really scarce in the movie. Plus, that was Piggy's worst hairstyle ever! I wasn't a fan of her revised sculpt either. That's why I give it a C. MTI on the other hand was just a lot of fun. Yeah, the Muppets playing other parts isn't my favorite thing, but I really liked how they shot for this very different look and texture for a Muppet movie. MFS, well I actually cried afterward. I knew it would be the cinematic nail in the coffin for a long time to come and 12 years later TMF hit the theaters. Thank Frog for it.

 

[sesamekid75]

Alternate ways to post what?

Well, I want to find a site or somewhere on this forum where I can post my thoughts in some kind of blog, or writeup ... or find ways to send messages that are more than just a few sentences. I am new to forums in general so I don't want to take up space here or get off topic. But if you or anyone else has suggestions on what or where to post, please let me know. I suppose I could also try and start a discussion with someone like I am doing now, but I have much to share when it comes to things like the Muppets.

 

[Drtooth]

Many of Jim Henson's movie and television themes diffused the typical black hat antagonist. Doc Hopper is the only true one I can really think of that fits the standard mold. Even Jereth in Labyrinth wasn't really that bad of a guy. He just represents a selfish path, but not a vicious or cruel one. The skeksis weren't totally evil either. They were just one half of a whole. Jim sought more thoughtful messages than the clear contrasts we're used to getting from most entertainment. I feel a lot of that tradition was upheld with the recent film, although most of that actually was gutted from the final cut.

I do like MFS even though I harp on it a lot... but the one thing I think they did right was have an antagonist who wasn't a villain. Same thing with Follow that Bird. Miss Finch, the main antagonist wasn't evil, she was doing what she thought was right, same deal with Singer. These aren't bad people (or birds), just self righteous and don't realize how harmful their actions are. I'd love to see that explored once again.

Doc, Tex, Rachel Bitterman, and Nick Holiday were the standard black hats in those films... Tex is the only one of the bunch who has some sort of catharsis and changes (even if the final film suggests it's because of a large Flintstonian bonk on the head), but the others wind up getting exactly what they deserve in the end... Nothing for Doc and Bitterman, jail for Nick.

I don't list Scrooge or Long John Silver because they're pre-existing literary characters... though Long John would be a tied second favorite with Charles Grodin...

Only mainstream movies are adepts of this horrendous "modern"(ie: badly shot, ADHD style) If you saw my top ten list, youd know most of the best films are indie/indie-ish dramedys, dramas and comedys. As well as some foreign films.

I do think that may have worked for a Muppet film... but to launch the film and grab people's attention they needed something that's a little more mainstream in tone. The Piggy/Kermit Paris scene suggests the film desperately wants to be slower paced and a little more adult. I'd say if there was a problem with the 4th wall gags, it's probably because they're trying too hard to be like the first film or maybe GMC, but those jokes aren't really there in their own movies (Forgetting Sarah Marshall, Knocked Up, etc)... but I don't find the pacing as utterly offensively sloppy as half the other kid's films out there. Those ARE ADD.

Still, it seems that's the way some of the other Modern Muppet projects turned out... though, if anything, MFS's pacing is too slow in the middle. Doesn't really bug me that much, and I bet it's all about the editing... next time if they cool it and tone it down a little, make it more MTM paced, we'll have a stronger film over all.

 

[frogboy4]

I do like MFS even though I harp on it a lot... but the one thing I think they did right was have an antagonist who wasn't a villain. Same thing with Follow that Bird. Miss Finch, the main antagonist wasn't evil, she was doing what she thought was right, same deal with Singer. These aren't bad people (or birds), just self righteous and don't realize how harmful their actions are. I'd love to see that explored once again.

Doc, Tex, Rachel Bitterman, and Nick Holiday were the standard black hats in those films... Tex is the only one of the bunch who has some sort of catharsis and changes (even if the final film suggests it's because of a large Flintstonian bonk on the head), but the others wind up getting exactly what they deserve in the end... Nothing for Doc and Bitterman, jail for Nick.

I don't list Scrooge or Long John Silver because they're pre-existing literary characters... though Long John would be a tied second favorite with Charles Grodin...

I do think that may have worked for a Muppet film... but to launch the film and grab people's attention they needed something that's a little more mainstream in tone. The Piggy/Kermit Paris scene suggests the film desperately wants to be slower paced and a little more adult. I'd say if there was a problem with the 4th wall gags, it's probably because they're trying too hard to be like the first film or maybe GMC, but those jokes aren't really there in their own movies (Forgetting Sarah Marshall, Knocked Up, etc)... but I don't find the pacing as utterly offensively sloppy as half the other kid's films out there. Those ARE ADD.

Still, it seems that's the way some of the other Modern Muppet projects turned out... though, if anything, MFS's pacing is too slow in the middle. Doesn't really bug me that much, and I bet it's all about the editing... next time if they cool it and tone it down a little, make it more MTM paced, we'll have a stronger film over all.

I like some of the "bits" in MFS, but I don't merely think the film is bad. I actually think it's terrible. The only really good thing it served was to turn some of the kids who saw it (usually on home video) into fans. However, most people just didn't respond to the film. The Muppets weren't meant to be niche or nostalgic entertainment. They're meant for everyone and the new movie portrays that perfectly.

 

[Drtooth]

Like I said before, a few extra minutes of film here and there would have really made this film sing, and fix the pacing problems... but too much is wrong with the BTS aspect of MFS to make it better than it was. TM11 was a smooth production with writers and a director who gelled perfectly, and accepted suggested changed to their film from Muppet Studio (which, as much as I think Jason et al saved the Muppets, a lot of the original concepts of the movie weren't quite as good as the finished project.. especially Kermit's housing situation). Other than some missing scenes that shouldn't be missing and some scenes that could stand to be left behind, this film was fins the way it was. MFS tossed out some strong concepts for house painting and mail checking. Even the new movie's use of prexisting music worked out better, settling for period pieces... I love the 1970's "Me and Julio down by the Schoolyard" in the flashback at the beginning, the almost ironic, satirical use of "We Built this City." Cars could have been replaced with an instrumental Moving Right Along, though.

But "Get up offa That Thing, and Dance Till you Feel Better" because Gonzo got up offa that thing and used a lawn mower?

The connections Jason had gave us (for the most part) great cameos that worked, while MFS showed the down side of their popularity with Hulk Hogan, Rob Schnider, and the cast of an at the moment WB show referencing said show. Sure, they're geek friendly cameos... Jack Black, Kristen Schall, Sarah Silverman... but they're very organic in the movie. Other than Disney's 20 seconds of commercial for their programming cameos (not half as bad as any of the TV movies and specials done under NBC), we had some pretty good moments there.

 

[Scooterforever]

I don't really consider Doc Hopper a "black hat" villain. He actually has a clear motivation, which I don't think is evil in and of itself; he wants a good spokesman so he can get his fast food chain off the ground. In the film's beginning he doesn't start off so bad, he offers Kermit money and a contract, but after Kermit says no for the second time he goes off the deep end, using an evil German Scientist (it wasn't said outright, but I think he was even a Nazi) and a cold blooded hitman to try and force Kermit to do his bidding. Again, I don't think he started off as a "black hat" villain, but throughout the course of the film his deeds become more and more sinister to get what he wants. Of course, if the film was released today, Fox News would say Hopper was the victim and that the film demonizes small business owners. I still can't believe that Fox segment criticizing the new film; the Fox News meatpuppet clearly hadn't even seen the film, as he thought Richman himself was a Muppet.

 

[frogboy4]

I don't really consider Doc Hopper a "black hat" villain. He actually has a clear motivation, which I don't think is evil in and of itself; he wants a good spokesman so he can get his fast food chain off the ground. In the film's beginning he doesn't start off so bad, he offers Kermit money and a contract, but after Kermit says no for the second time he goes off the deep end, using an evil German Scientist (it wasn't said outright, but I think he was even a Nazi) and a cold blooded hitman to try and force Kermit to do his bidding. Again, I don't think he started off as a "black hat" villain, but throughout the course of the film his deeds become more and more sinister to get what he wants. Of course, if the film was released today, Fox News would say Hopper was the victim and that the film demonizes small business owners. I still can't believe that Fox segment criticizing the new film; the Fox News meatpuppet clearly hadn't even seen the film, as he thought Richman himself was a Muppet.

Doc is the only real example of a black hat villain in the Jim Henson universe that i could think of. That was the point. In contrast to the rest he is just that, but in the world of the movie he's not as menacing as most movie villains. *That* is my main point.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I don't really consider Doc Hopper a "black hat" villain. He actually has a clear motivation, which I don't think is evil in and of itself; he wants a good spokesman so he can get his fast food chain off the ground. In the film's beginning he doesn't start off so bad, he offers Kermit money and a contract, but after Kermit says no for the second time he goes off the deep end

Yeah Hopper starts out as the typical ambitious businessman but then seems to forget that in America you can't force people (or um, intelligent frogs) to work for you, that's called slavery, lol.

Actually that's one aspect of the Muppet movies that I always found amusing. There's always this slight tension going on where the humans accept that animals are talking, but at the same time they aren't entirely comfortable with it, lol.