Your Thoughts: "Muppets Most Wanted" Theatrical Film

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I'm surprised I'm the only one commenting on the cimematography. Which I thought was aces better than the last one. It just felt this time around, like you were watching a real Muppet movie, something I haven't felt since TMTM 30 years ago. Everything else has felt like extended ABC tv specials.

That I actually very much agree with. It did feel like a proper movie this time. My issues with the film definitely weren't with how it looked. Mainly with the script, as usual.

 

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While it is debatable which film is better on the merits of tone, plot, and concept, I'm shocked that not one other person has commented on how much better the filmmaking aspects of the follow up were.

Honestly because if the tone and plot make me uneasy, I tend to stop paying attention to how the film looks.

And I'm not just blindly disliking a new project or anything. Look back at my old posts, I was overall very kind to Muppets 2011. That's why it was so painful watching this film and not connecting at all (again, except for the Kermit/Tina Fey scenes).

 

[Drtooth]

And then came Fozzie in this movie. Double wow.

There is no comparison. Fozzie was naive, sure... but MFS treated him like an idiot. Picking his nose? Really? And the "Mama always said to wash my hands" bit? I'm sorry, he already fell hard with that one. He's supposed to be close to his mother, but they made him act like a 4 year old there. To say the least of how flat Kermit was the entire time in that film, but that's something else all together. I really do enjoy MFS, but under the pretense that it's Gonzo's movie and everyone else is just there. But Kermit and Piggy were just so incredibly flat in that film. In terms of not getting the characters, much worse than you could accuse this movie for being. They knew how to write for Gonzo, Rizzo, all the new characters... maybe Bunsen and Beaker. But Kermit, Piggy, Fozzie, and Animal were flat in MFS. This was a bigger improvement.

The writers seemed very comfortable writing for the humans and then confused when writing for the Muppets.

Which I'll disagree with completely. In the context of this is a new writing staff and some of the performers are new and unintentionally putting their own spin on characters, that's to be expected. Daffy Duck changed completely from his original cartoons to the Chuck Jones era (and yes, there are critics of that). Fast forward to Duck Dodgers and Looney Tunes Show, they tried to make him wacky again, but instead of making him looney, he's now insane on a more mental level. And it actually kinda works. Then go back to the 1960's with those awful Speedy and Daffy cartoons... Daffy's a flat jerk, greedy idiot that's interchangeable with Sylvester in those cartoons. Some of the characters were like that in MFS, Flanderized and emotionless. I do not now, or ever believe Kermit would ever say "Get on down with your bad selves." Even the "porn is fine" comment's less out of character.

I think the writers had a deep understanding of the character with the caveat that this is an idiot plot, and for the film to work you'd have to accept that the characters were blinded by too much freedom to care there was something wrong. The last film you'd have to accept that Kermit was that capable of deep depression after having a fight with Piggy (which wasn't mentioned in the film, BTW) and just dumping the whole Muppet crew as a result. Once you got past that, the film worked... and that was a LOT more to process.

And if that's still the case, frankly... no one has the characters at heart like those who are no longer involved. That happens, it's forgivable if there's a nuance missing. If it's wild, quoting old buzzphrases, completely out of character stuff, it isn't. Not the case here, even remotely.

 

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If you want to talk about Kermit's scenes in this film, I'm on board. Had a great time with him in the gulag. The rest of the film? I was trying very hard not to cry for 2 hours and I assure you I'm not even kidding. I can't recommend this film. .....

Anyway, I was genuinely touched when Kermit thought his friends truly had forgotten about him and weren't coming to rescue him. Steve did an awesome job in his performance. And it was a great, inspiring moment when Walter, Animal and That Character I Refuse to Call Fozzie finally arrived.

 

[Drtooth]

You know, I'm just going to facepalm at the comments about "The Muppets should have been smarter than that." I really am, considering that seems to be the main complaint.

I can analyze it for all its worth, but it's clearly supposed to be the joke. It's playing with the concept with a wink and a nod, taking the paper thin disguise joke and brutally slaughtering it by making the characters that stupid. I've seen a lot of evil twin/secret identity things played deadly straight or toyed with a little, and by that logic...everyone is completely idiotic. You can't tell me that no one knows Prince Adam is He-Man when his disguise consists of not being tan? Or when they have an evil twin on a cartoon series, they have these big, thick black eyebrows and a very grim deep voice and act completely different and no one notices until the end. And it's funny when it's a gag, but I've seen it played so dreadfully straight, it can't be taken seriously.

It's a standard trope they're parodying. Simple as that. You can either do it two ways... either make it very subtle and having everyone be savvy enough to see through it or the funnier approach of making everything blatantly obvious. That's what they did here, going for the cartooniest way possible. We're not supposed to believe they're actually that dumb, we're supposed to realize how dumb everyone else is ever who was given this cliche for falling for it. Even the "he has a cold" cliche is played with. And what do Muppet movies live to play with? Cliches. Meanwhile, let's look at the opposite end of the spectrum, how dangerously genre savvy Constantine was. I've never seen evil twin played like this before. Being nice to the characters to lull them into a false sense of security by giving them so much of what they want, they're too wrapped up to notice anything is wrong.

All I'm saying, it's a standard set of tropes played with. Logic has to be set aside for plot once in a while, or you'll get a 2 minute movie.

 

[Ruahnna]

A few comments... (I know you're all shocked.)

I don't think the goal for getting the characters right should be to do better than the worst muppet film ever, regardless of what film you thought that was. So if a character's, um, character was off, then it was off. I hope I say this respectfully, but there is no excuse for not getting this right. This is the big time. This is Disney. Bring your A-game or move over and let someone else do it-someone who will do the work necessary to be prepared.

As to cinematography...I'm an old Trekkie. For ME, the STORY reigns, not the special effects or lack thereof. A bad story well- filmed is just that (to me.) A good story filmed on a budget...we'll, see the aforementioned note about being an old Trekkie. I humbly bow to those who know more about the filming process and such-as a fan, I don't really care.

In the last movie, Kermit's moroseness was a normal reaction to having all of his life's dreams fall through. He's NOT making millions of people happy-he's wandering around the house the love of his life built for them to share. He's lost touch with his closest friends. It's only when he admit's to himself (in he context of the story) that he LET his dreams slip through his fingers hat he is able to grabs the reigns of his life again. It was a triumphant plot, when ended on a positive, family-feeling sort of note. MMW opened up mocking that family feeling. There are no fans. No one will come unless we pay them. It is a very different, more cynical tone.

I think there was a lack of interest on the part of Disney in being faithful to the characters. There were hints of this in the press as they tried to distance themselves from Jason's very fan-based perspective.

Also-apparently some of you have seen out takes from the last movie that I have not seen. Where can one see those?

Again, I do not wish to damage anyone's enjoyment, just to thoughtfully discuss what we have all seen.

 

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I can analyze it for all its worth, but it's clearly supposed to be the joke.

Of course it is. It just wasn't funny for me. Or for my entire theater. Dead silence for most of the film. And you could tell they wanted to laugh more. It just wasn't coming.

All I'm saying, it's a standard set of tropes played with.

If it felt like a clever wink to a cliche, I'd agree with you. I just didn't get the vibe that that even crossed their minds. It just felt amateur.

 

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In the last movie, Kermit's moroseness was a normal reaction to having all of his life's dreams fall through. He's NOT making millions of people happy-he's wandering around the house the love of his life built for them to share. He's lost touch with his closest friends. It's only when he admit's to himself (in he context of the story) that he LET his dreams slip through his fingers hat he is able to grabs the reigns of his life again. It was a triumphant plot, when ended on a positive, family-feeling sort of note. MMW opened up mocking that family feeling. There are no fans. No one will come unless we pay them. It is a very different, more cynical tone.

It feels like the writers looked at a couple of Muppet Show episodes and thought, "Oh I see! The joke is that it's a terrible show! We'd better drive home how pathetic the Muppets are and how audiences need to be PAID just to see them! That's funny, right?....Ha ha?..." Totally lack of understanding. Painful. And you're right, for Disney that's kinda shocking.

 

[Oscarfan]

Considering the fact is that every episode is based around the fact that they're running a terrible show. One episode states that Kermit doesn't allow for intermissions because they audience never came back from one.

 

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Considering the fact is that every episode is based around the fact that they're running a terrible show. One episode states that Kermit doesn't allow for intermissions because they audience never came back from one.

Like I said, it's a question of execution. As usual, the difference between good and bad writing. It's funny when Kermit makes a comment like that about intermission. It's painful to watch the Muppets ridiculed because they're "too stupid to be that stupid" for 2 hours.

Oi, I'm just done. I can't even watch Muppets Take Manhattan right now. The whole thing is just too painful. I gave it a fair chance and I get a villain named Badguy and "too stupid to be that stupid." I'm just done, lol.