Would you vote for Bush or Kerry?

Will you vote for Bush or Kerry?

  • Bush

    Votes: 52 44.8%
  • Kerry

    Votes: 63 54.3%
  • Nadar

    Votes: 1 0.9%

  • Total voters
    116
  • Poll closed .

Doctor Teeth

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I can see that calm and rational discussion is not commonplace here. No, I was not "high" when I wrote this, I've never been "high", and I don't ever inted to be "high". Sorry kids, not for me. I rather like keeping my brain intact. Don't let the avatar fool you.

Anyway, I never said the Muppets had any of the same stances on modern day issues as Bush, I was merley saying he was a moral man. He holds the same prociples as those shows taught us, like truth, love, peace, honor, duty, and such.

Now I can see that you have your own views on what Bush stands for. Well, allow me to give you mine.

Yes, indeed, Bush is bringing back the Christian Values, the values our Country was founded on. Our Country was started by God fearing men, built by God fearing people. These "Judeo-Christian" morals were commonplace. See how far we have strayed from them? We grow more liberal and cynical by the day. The media controlls our way of thinking, pollutes the minds of our children, and summons us to a general state of ignorance. The result is a land of violence, uncontrolled sexual immorality, hatred, and apathy. We can close our eyes, and minds, and pretend it isn't true, but at some point we all need to wake up. Bush fights againts this ignotance and apathy that is suffocating this Country.

Now, about the war, I honestly believe it was the right thing to do. Picture this, you walk down the street and see a man strking someone for no reason, robbing this person, and beating him to death. What do you do? You know this man is doing something wrong that is endangering the life of others, and you know that he is a threat to those around you, your loved ones, and to society in general. No one but a heartless creature would not try to aide the dying man. If you are human, you are going to do one of two things, go for help to stop this maniac, or try to save the poor man yourself if no help is there to be found.

This is quite like what happend. Saddam was killing his own people, and others. Bush knew he was a threat, and had evidence that he could harm not only his people, but the people of the world. Was he jsut to sit back and watch? NO! Of course not. He was not to be apethetic like the British leader Chamberlin. Apathy like that sent billions of Jews to thier graves, destroyed the lives of millions of Germans and nearly gift-wrapped the world in a package for Hitler. No, Bush would not play appeasment politics. He would help.

His firts priority, as It should be for every leader is the safety of his own Country. And since that was jeapordized by this Titan, Saddam, who was not unknown for possible plans for world domination, decided to take action. He was protecting us, Iraq, and the rest the World. Of course his first objective was to rid Iraw of the WMD, and who's to say the don't have the weapons? That is unknown still. They could be as hidden as Bin Laden himself. Since the saftey of his country was now stable, he fufilled the other objective, saving the assualted man, Iraq. And they are a far better place because of it, and are working thier way, slowly but surely, for a better Iraq. If America was inslaved by a Dictator, would you object to England coming to save us at thier expense? It's called, doing what is right. I have the highest respect for our troops. They knew what they were sighning up for, they knew that joining the army means that if in event of war they would be sent to the battlefield.

As such for homosexuals, I have no problem with homosexual "people". I simply have a problem with thier homosexuality. Has any one really stopped to consider what this rise in the homosexual lifestyle means? It means literlly the end of society as we know it. If this goes on, the very substance of the "family" will be destroyed. We will see a dramatic decrease in children being born. Nothing will be the same. Immorality will increase wildly. Is that the kind of world you want your children to grow up in? Not I. It's not Rascism. I hate Rascism, it is a horrible and sickening thing. But what is even more horrid to me is when something "unnatural" becomes widespread and accepted. Right is substituted for wrong. I have nothing againts gay people, they are some of the kindest people you could ever meet. But I firmly believ what they are doing is wrong, and is dangerous to the entire world.

Could you explain how Bush is rascist? How you call somone who fights to save another race at not benifit to himself a rascist, is unfathomable to me.

Furthermore, the difference between Bush and Kerry is very much a Moral issue. Our society is built on the "Family". Bush cares about the family, and wants to keep it intact. He wants to bring back the conciousness to the people of this nation, to come back to what we've abandoned. This being: a sense of right and wrong. A Love for one another as friends and neihbors, and a respect for all mankind. Something our world lacks right now. I think this little bit somes it up, While the Kerry and the Democratics were throwing wild parties, which if I recall they still have not given up the tapes for us to see (A wise move), Bush and his friends were praying together for the nation.

Now, I expect you read my post, if you indeed read the whole thing, with perhaps a sneer of dissaproval, perhaps thinking me a complete moron. We'll, if so it is because the views of you and I greatly differ. However, I will be glad to hear your response, and suspect you will have quite a few things for me to reply to. Well, I shall meet them in time, and wonder if thier is anyone else out thier who shares my views, or soemthing close to them.
 

Censored

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Doctor Teeth said:
I can see that calm and rational discussion is not commonplace here. No, I was not "high" when I wrote this, I've never been "high", and I don't ever inted to be "high". Sorry kids, not for me. I rather like keeping my brain intact. Don't let the avatar fool you.
Well, there's always a natural high.

Doctor Teeth said:
Anyway, I never said the Muppets had any of the same stances on modern day issues as Bush, I was merley saying he was a moral man. He holds the same prociples as those shows taught us, like truth, love, peace, honor, duty, and such.
Peace? :zany:



Doctor Teeth said:
Yes, indeed, Bush is bringing back the Christian Values, the values our Country was founded on...

...The result is a land of violence, uncontrolled sexual immorality, hatred, and apathy. We can close our eyes, and minds, and pretend it isn't true, but at some point we all need to wake up. Bush fights againts this ignotance and apathy that is suffocating this Country.
Well, he's certainly bringing back the same kind of slaughter that the early Christian settlers did to the Native Americans. I never quite understood the connection that Christianity had with genocide and slavery in the early days of America, but what would a heathen like me know?

Doctor Teeth said:
Now, about the war, I honestly believe it was the right thing to do...

...Saddam was killing his own people, and others. Bush knew he was a threat, and had evidence that he could harm not only his people, but the people of the world. Was he jsut to sit back and watch? NO! Of course not. He was not to be apethetic like the British leader Chamberlin. Apathy like that sent billions of Jews to thier graves, destroyed the lives of millions of Germans and nearly gift-wrapped the world in a package for Hitler. No, Bush would not play appeasment politics...

Maybe not, but he sure does a good imitation of appeasement politics with naughty countries that are our own size like China. I wonder when he plans to make them pay for all of their human rights violations?

Ultimately, both Bush and Kerry are just politicians. I'm not naive enough to believe that any man or woman in public office is going to be the savior of us all. I do think Kerry could have done a better job than Bush (of course that's not saying much), but on the other hand, Bush deserves to inherit the legacy of this insane war that he started, Kerry doesn't. Maybe it was all for the best.
 
T

timrikthegorf

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Ok "He holds the same principles as those shows taught us, like truth, love, peace, honor, duty, and such.” Not according to his actions. He and his administration have lied multiple times. He certainly is not peaceful since he jumped to war instead of taking peaceful action; He has no honor because all he has done is order other men and women to die while he sits back. I'll give you love because we know he loves things like power and money and I'll give you duty because at least he thinks he's doing a good job (though he isn't).

The country actually wasn't founded on Christian values. I'm not really sure where you got that from. If you take the big ten rules (the Ten Commandments) you'll find that only 2 are actual laws. You can't steal or kill. So, the founding fathers left out the other 8 rules. This country was founded on freedom and the rights of people to live as they see fit without harming others. That's why we aren't a theocracy. You see, if we were all about these Judeo-Christian values, would we have freedom of religion? Would we even have freedom of speech? No, we would have the Bible as our constitution and a church as our government. Most of the founding fathers of this nation were not "God fearing". They were ration people that thought about things like human rights and government. If you go here http://www.anotherperspective.org/advoc550.html you can read some quotes taken from the writings Washington, Jefferson, and Paine. So, this country was NOT found on Christian morals. And I suggest you actually read the Bible some time. You may not like what you read. Oh, and if you look into the real history of the founding fathers I'm sure you'll find them to be immoral by Christian standards.

Ok, just wanted to clear that up. Moving on.

About Iraq, you asked who is to say they Saddam didn't have weapons. Well, WE said that, after we went in and attacked them. Now you can claim they are there, but most rational people tend to rely on actual proof instead of unfounded rumors. Now if we are going to attack countries because they are a threat, we should have gone after Saudi Arabia. You know Saudi Arabia, right? That's were most of the 9/11 terrorists came from. You know where they didn't come from? Iraq.

Now was Saddam a bad guy? Sure, I'll give you that. But this was not the way to remove him from power, nor is it even our job to remove him. Now the country is in chaos and is horribly unsafe for the people.

Now you brought up Bin Ladden, and I just wanted to make sure you knew Bin Ladden and Saddam aren't the same guy nor were they even connected. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Moving on. You say homosexuality will lead to the down fall of society. Um....what? Do you think homosexuality is a new thing? It's been around for a long time and children are still being born. You know why? Everyone is not gay. Funny how that works out. And how will immorality increase? Back up what you say please. No one is forcing you to be gay or anything else. It's not something you can control. Now please tell me how two men or two women having sex is a danger to the world. I'd really love to know how that is. I nothing else it will be funny to read your crazy rantings.

Now, banning gay marriage will not stop people from being gay. All it does is oppress a group of people. And as far as it being unnatural, it was once said that inter racial marriage was unnatural. Do you believe that too? Oh, and there are cases of gay animals. So, homosexuality happens in nature...which kind of makes it natural....but I'm sure that won't bother you any.

I can’t even understand where you get your ideas.

I'm sure I left some things out but I'm not good at responding to insanely long posts.
 

HeraLirambar

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Doctor Teeth said:
We grow more liberal and cynical by the day.
Allow me to say my favourite expression, "You say liberal like it's a bad thing." Quite honestly, I never understood that.
Doctor Teeth said:
If this goes on, the very substance of the "family" will be destroyed. We will see a dramatic decrease in children being born. Nothing will be the same. Immorality will increase wildly.
Okay, one, the children thing. Let me just say that in this lifetime, with all the technology and science and everything, even if everyone turned gay, we still wouldn't die out. And the immorality thing? Other than the fact that you deem homosexuality unnatural, how do you link homosexuality to immorality? Are we talking just about the supposed immorality of homosexuality, or immorality in general? Because if it's the second one, I think you should worry more about things like Britney Spears' day long marriage and quickie wedding chapels which allow people to get marry without a second thought leading to immorality
Doctor Teeth said:
While the Kerry and the Democratics were throwing wild parties,
Wait, really? *Gets image of John Kerry whacking a pinata shaped like an elephant, John Edwards running around with a lamp on his head, and Howard Dean singing System of a Down's "Boom" on kareoke*
Hee hee hee.
~See, this is why people don't take you hippies seriously, Hera. Even non-drug-using ones like you act all loopy.~
Shut up!
 

scarylarrywolf

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timrikthegorf said:
The country actually wasn't founded on Christian values. I'm not really sure where you got that from. If you take the big ten rules (the Ten Commandments) you'll find that only 2 are actual laws. You can't steal or kill. So, the founding fathers left out the other 8 rules. This country was founded on freedom and the rights of people to live as they see fit without harming others. That's why we aren't a theocracy. You see, if we were all about these Judeo-Christian values, would we have freedom of religion? Would we even have freedom of speech? No, we would have the Bible as our constitution and a church as our government. Most of the founding fathers of this nation were not "God fearing". They were ration people that thought about things like human rights and government. If you go here http://www.anotherperspective.org/advoc550.html you can read some quotes taken from the writings Washington, Jefferson, and Paine. So, this country was NOT found on Christian morals. And I suggest you actually read the Bible some time. You may not like what you read. Oh, and if you look into the real history of the founding fathers I'm sure you'll find them to be immoral by Christian standards.

Ok, just wanted to clear that up. Moving on.
You wanted to CLEAR that up? Well, you did get the part about it not being a theocracy, but the country was indeed founded on biblical principles. It was a haven for people to escape religious oppression, and the first of those were the Puritans, who certainly respected God. Many of the founding fathers were not Christians(Franklin, Jefferson, etc.), but where did the tradition of the President being sworn in with his hand on a BIBLE come from? Why does the Supreme Court still have the TEN COMMANDMENTS on the wall? Why do our coins say "In God We Trust"? Because we have those roots in scriptural principles -- treating each other in fairness. They're subtle, but it's not the Koran you see there. And it gets taken for granted more and more -- since when have we really meant "God bless America"? We'd better quit hoping for that if we're willing to overlook that about our past. :smirk:
 

scarylarrywolf

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Oh, just wanted to give a shout out to Doctor Teeth -- Good words on the Bush method of "Active Peace", as I like to think of it. I agree with every word you wrote on that. I even agree with the punctuation. Good Samaritan story -- check.

I don't think so much that homosexuals are a major threat to our society -- they need as much love as the next person. I don't agree with their actions, but I don't agree with many of mine either because I'm sinful and need forgiveness and love to try to get over it. I think the the world is full of plenty of aweful enough stuff to bring down families that is being overlooked -- like rape, molestation, spouse/child abuse, etc. So I don't think homosexuality is as much a threat to society as many people make it out to be.

However, I do wonder if the "problem" of homosexuality is genetic, wouldn't it have "fixed" itself a long time ago? Just a thought.
 

scarylarrywolf

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GeeBee said:
Well, he's certainly bringing back the same kind of slaughter that the early Christian settlers did to the Native Americans. I never quite understood the connection that Christianity had with genocide and slavery in the early days of America, but what would a heathen like me know?

Am I allowed to post 3 times in a row? Sorry, I just wanted to help clarify the thing about Christianity and genocide. Whenever the Bible is interpreted by people (which are the primary creatures who read it), there is always the misfortunate chance that it will be misinterpretted. Comparing what Scripture says in its own context (time, culture, and the text surrounding a particularly scrutenized passage) rather than comparing it to human action is always the way to go if you want to figure out what it really means. The Bible has been manipulated by using tiny pieces of it out of their context to rationalize gaining money for the church (Indulgences), brutal slavery (Southern USA), and killing for gain (the Crusades) among other things. This was even evident in Jesus' time (see in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John how P.O.'d He got at the religious leaders for misinterpreting Scripture for their selfish gain -- He even called them "sons of H***"!).

Originally in America, the first "religious" settlers -- the Puritans -- came over and treated the Native Americans in all fairness (a good thing to remember during this time of Thanksgiving...). But eventually people did get selfish and killed people over gaining land. The same thing happened in the South over claiming people as property -- out of context. Many slaveholders who didn't see their slaves as humans professed to be religious, but so did Abraham Lincoln who ended slavery. Was one side wrong? Surprise! Slaveholders were not loving their African neighbors as themselves and were thus not living according to the Bible but twisting it.

So yeah, it is tough when dealing with humans to figure out what the Bible actually means because we tend to screw it up. But it helps to relate scripture to itself, learn from vicarious instances in the Bible (the religious leaders of the time), and compare the Bible to how people act. It is a hard thing to practice what you preach. Christians aren't any holier than anyone else, but it's the acknowledgement of that and the attempt to reform in light of Jesus taking the consequences of their screw-ups that makes them who they are. And if you don't see that attempt to reform in someone who claims Christianity, then they are probably no more than a "resounding gong or a clanging cymbol".

K, I'm done for a while...
 
T

timrikthegorf

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scarylarrywolf said:
You wanted to CLEAR that up? Well, you did get the part about it not being a theocracy, but the country was indeed founded on biblical principles. It was a haven for people to escape religious oppression, and the first of those were the Puritans, who certainly respected God. Many of the founding fathers were not Christians(Franklin, Jefferson, etc.), but where did the tradition of the President being sworn in with his hand on a BIBLE come from? Why does the Supreme Court still have the TEN COMMANDMENTS on the wall? Why do our coins say "In God We Trust"? Because we have those roots in scriptural principles -- treating each other in fairness. They're subtle, but it's not the Koran you see there. And it gets taken for granted more and more -- since when have we really meant "God bless America"? We'd better quit hoping for that if we're willing to overlook that about our past. :smirk:
In God We Trust didn't happen until civil war time and that was to make the people feel better.

Swearing on the Bible when entering the presidential office is optional, though no one has yet to opt out. It says that the president "shall" swear on the Bible, not must.

The ten commandments may be in the supreme court, but only 2 are actual laws. Killing and stealing. The other 8 are not laws. So, while they may be there as a symbol of law, they are not followed as law. It would be the same as putting up Hamorabi's Code (I'm sure I spelled that wrong). It's a symbol of a code of laws, though we do not follow them.

The original 13 colonies were founded for financial reasons. The pilgrams came here for religious freedom, but James Town was founded by England so the country could tap into the resources of this side of the globe. This country grew from the 13 colonies that started with James Towen in Virginia. You really don't know much about your history it seems.

Can someone please tell me how homosexualtiy is morally wrong? I keep hearing that it is, but not why it is.

Question. If the Bible is the word of God, does that mean all things in the Bible are true, just, pious, and moral? Answer that and I'll get back to you.
 

Censored

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scarylarrywolf said:
You wanted to CLEAR that up? Well, you did get the part about it not being a theocracy, but the country was indeed founded on biblical principles. It was a haven for people to escape religious oppression, and the first of those were the Puritans, who certainly respected God. Many of the founding fathers were not Christians(Franklin, Jefferson, etc.), but where did the tradition of the President being sworn in with his hand on a BIBLE come from? Why does the Supreme Court still have the TEN COMMANDMENTS on the wall? Why do our coins say "In God We Trust"? Because we have those roots in scriptural principles -- treating each other in fairness. They're subtle, but it's not the Koran you see there. And it gets taken for granted more and more -- since when have we really meant "God bless America"? We'd better quit hoping for that if we're willing to overlook that about our past. :smirk:

Yeah, the country's position on religion is really a bit schizophrenic when you get right down to it.
 

Thijs

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scarylarrywolf said:
I don't think so much that homosexuals are a major threat to our society -- they need as much love as the next person. I don't agree with their actions, but I don't agree with many of mine either because I'm sinful and need forgiveness and love to try to get over it. I think the the world is full of plenty of aweful enough stuff to bring down families that is being overlooked -- like rape, molestation, spouse/child abuse, etc. So I don't think homosexuality is as much a threat to society as many people make it out to be.
So you are comparing homosexuality to "rape, molestation, spouse/child abuse"?

scarylarrywolf said:
However, I do wonder if the "problem" of homosexuality is genetic, wouldn't it have "fixed" itself a long time ago? Just a thought.
And what the **** are you suggesting by saying THAT.
 
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