Where is Steve Whitmire Petition

[MelissaY1]

No offense, but this doesn't sit right with me. Why should we applaud a mediocre performance just because we can't do any better ourselves? That's not the nature of criticism, and it's not the nature of fandom either. What, so people shouldn't have complained about that whole Gonzo "those are my nipples" quotes if they couldn't have written something better themselves?

As people who have shared a board with Artie, I think the overall consensus has been that we ARE happy for him, in a "way to go, man, that's awesome that you're living the dream." That said, I'm sure he can understand--from the fan perspective--what it's like to have the rug pulled out from under you with a performer switch like this. There is no reason for us to temper down our feelings because he posts on the board. He has become a performer, and we his audience. And like all audiences, we have the ability--and the right--to judge what we see.

I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, I still don't understand why people are so upset by Steve not performing Kermit. I just watched the clip of him and Lady Gaga at the VMA's and actually thought he sounded BETTER then on America's Got Talent. I'm not saying we don't have a right to not judge or be critical as fans but I've just read alot of posts here and on other fan sites that Artie sucks, it's not Kermit, etc. It just seems kind of unfair to Artie that's all. I just feel like the guy's probably under enough pressure these days and to come onto a board and read such negative comments about his performances of late would be a little discouraging.

 

[MelissaY1]

Nobody's bashing Artie. And criticizing his Kermit doesn't mean we're not excited or happy for him. Being happy for him as a person and being happy with his performance are two very different things.

By your logic, Disney could pick any random one of us to play a major Muppet, and everyone else here should be thrilled, regardless of the result. Participating in the fan community doesn't give you any special rights as a performer.



What's really sad is that people are willing to accept less than "the best Kermit" in the name of being positive. I think Kermit deserves the best. Don't you?

EDITED TO ADD:

Just realized someone else said it better, and sooner:



What Sarah said.

There have been several people here who came off and said it was horrible, awful, he sucks, etc. And yes I know people are criticizing the performance but it's a reflection of the person it seems, or at least I think it's coming off that way. Of course Kermit deserves the best performer, but I just don't think people here are giving Artie a chance. I remember back when Steve first took over, there was a lot of criticism, uncomfortableness from fans because it wasn't Jim anymore and we grew to love Steve's interpretation just as much down the road. So I think in time, if indeed Steve is done performing Kermit at live performances or for good, Artie will come to those same quality of levels that Steve stepped up to when he had to fill Jim's shoes.

Again like people here have said too, the general public doesn't pay as close attention to the voice/performances like we do. If the general public is happy with this "version" of Kermit, Disney will run with it and keep the public happy so they can keep doing more Muppet stuff, keep making more money, etc.

And yes I think if one of us was chosen here to be hired to take over a character everyone else should be happy whether it's up to someone else's standard of how that character should sound or not. The point is at least we're still seeing that character out there doing stuff. Kermit was just on T.V. on two major television programs within like a week of each other. That within itself should be making people happy here. I know I'm happy to see more Kermit on my television.

 

[MelissaY1]

I just saw the "new" Kermit talking, with Lady Gaga at the MTV VMA pre show.

If that is Artie, is it possible he's doing a distinct 1950's Kermit impersonation?

Here's "new" Kermit speaking the other day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifd4gjIJ9Bc

And here is 1950's Kermit from Sam and Friends
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU57i9rxoYU

"New" Kermit(Shermit? Ersatz Kermit? Fermit the Kog?)
absolutely sounds/acts nothing like modern Kermit...and by modern I mean 90-present Whitmire Kermit or mid 70's to late 80's Jim Henson Kermit.

Im guessing its more an homage to Kermit's humble beginnings?

I just watched this too and in my opinion thought vocally it was very well done. Puppetry was still a bit stiff but again I believe that will come with time if Artie is going to continue to perform Kermit.

 

[frogboy4]

I just watched this too and in my opinion thought vocally it was very well done. Puppetry was still a bit stiff but again I believe that will come with time if Artie is going to continue to perform Kermit.

"...Bueller...Bueller..." This new faux Kermit voice has this Ben Stein monotone drag that doesn't sound like Jim to me. Not being mean there. It perfectly illustrates what I'm talking about in calling this an impersonation rather than a performance. That's where the missing spark is. No performer can master the frog unless they find the Kermit from within. There are a lot of puppeteers out there who can provide such an impersonation, but the frog deserves better. Some personality. Some spark. No matter who gets the frog, I hope that special something (that Jim and Steve had/have) returns to the frog.

 

[MelissaY1]

"...Bueller...Bueller..." This new faux Kermit voice has this Ben Stein monotone drag that doesn't sound like Jim to me. That's what I'm talking about in calling this an impersonation rather than a performance. That's where the missing spark is. No performer can master the frog unless they find the Kermit from within. There are a lot of puppeteers out there who can provide such an impersonation, but the frog deserves better. Some personality. Some spark. No matter who gets the frog, I hope that special something (that Jim and Steve had/have) returns to the frog.

I didn't think the voice was that bad, but I WILL agree with you on the spark that is missing from the character. It is the spark that I joyously have found in Eric Jacobson's Grover. Not only is the voice good, but his delivery, cadence, physical trademarks of Grover are spot on to Frank's Grover.

I certainly believe Kermit's character has to come from within the performer and I believe Artie will find that which goes back to my earlier posts that we have to give him a chance. He's only done two live performances so far as the frog so far that we've seen. And I agree I want to see that spirit back to Kermit return.

 

[SarahOnBway]

I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, I still don't understand why people are so upset by Steve not performing Kermit.

I can only answer for myself. I am so upset by Steve not performing Kermit, in part because I am so loyal to Steve, and in part because I am so loyal to Kermit. If this was not Steve's choice, I will stand by him. And if this was Steve's choice, I will stand by my opinion that Kermit deserves only the very best puppeteers and that what I saw on AGT and the VMA's was not up to the quality that we have seen Kermit performed at in the past 50 years.

I just watched the clip of him and Lady Gaga at the VMA's and actually thought he sounded BETTER then on America's Got Talent.

I agree! It WAS better! But better doesn't necessarily mean "great" or "up to the standard we should hold everyone." If you get an F on a paper and then a D on the next, your parents aren't going to applaud you for doing better. You're still not passing.

I'm not saying we don't have a right to not judge or be critical as fans but I've just read alot of posts here and on other fan sites that Artie sucks, it's not Kermit, etc. It just seems kind of unfair to Artie that's all. I just feel like the guy's probably under enough pressure these days and to come onto a board and read such negative comments about his performances of late would be a little discouraging.

I don't mean to be rude to Artie. I'm sure he's a very nice man and very talented. But not every nice, talented person is meant to be the leader of the Muppets. I am not going to throw my support behind a person whose performance, I feel, is not up to snuff. And I'm sure it's hard to read negative comments but again, I have to say, tough. That's the nature of the internet. People have a place to express any opinion they might have, positive or negative. I'm sure Artie understands that. If I was in a major spotlight and every moron with a Twitter account said I was awful, I would want to prove those people wrong.

There have been several people here who came off and said it was horrible, awful, he sucks, etc. And yes I know people are criticizing the performance but it's a reflection of the person it seems, or at least I think it's coming off that way. Of course Kermit deserves the best performer, but I just don't think people here are giving Artie a chance. I remember back when Steve first took over, there was a lot of criticism, uncomfortableness from fans because it wasn't Jim anymore and we grew to love Steve's interpretation just as much down the road. So I think in time, if indeed Steve is done performing Kermit at live performances or for good, Artie will come to those same quality of levels that Steve stepped up to when he had to fill Jim's shoes.

I don't think a single person is criticizing Artie personally. I have read every post on every thread on this topic and the overall opinion is that he's a great guy they enjoyed talking to on the boards, and their happy for him as an acquaintance. Now, I have seen people bash Steve as a person NUMEROUS times. He's too young to play Kermit. His own personality is wrong for the character. He doesn't get it. Steve and Dave's friendship is forcing Fozzie out of the picture.

And the difference is, Jim died. We knew, going into it, if Kermit was going to be a part of the Muppets, he would have to be played by someone else. It wasn't a shock when we saw Steve's performances. They might have been different but they weren't a shock. Artie's--to no fault of his--were a shock. I'm still in shock. Maybe that's why passions are so high here. I will be the first person to say that my own feelings about Steve may make me prejudiced against Artie, and I appologize that. But I adore Steve--as a talented Muppeteer and as a person. And it physically pains me to see someone else take over Kermit.

Maybe I'm being too harsh--I probably am, and I don't mean to be. I'm just really sick and tired of people TELLING me how I can feel. Someone up thread, or on a different thread, said, "I actually didn't like LTS" and someone actually said back, "You are WRONG. LTS is amazing" or something to that effect. And I thought, "How can someone's opinion of a movie be wrong?" It can't. That's why it's an opinion and not a fact.

And yes I think if one of us was chosen here to be hired to take over a character everyone else should be happy whether it's up to someone else's standard of how that character should sound or not.

I disagree. If someone I'm friends with took up the mantle of Kermit, I would say, "I am so happy for you." And if he asked me what I thought, I'd give him my honest opinion, even if that was, "You need a lot of work." Why does it have to be different on boards?

No one ever said they weren't happy for Artie--I'm sure we are! It's an exciting time for him and that's just unbelievable that he's one of the rare people who get to live his dream!

The point is at least we're still seeing that character out there doing stuff. Kermit was just on T.V. on two major television programs within like a week of each other. That within itself should be making people happy here. I know I'm happy to see more Kermit on my television.

Again, I disagree. I'd rather no Kermit than a Kermit that strikes me as false. There are plenty of other Muppets that could've subbed in for him, if this isn't a permanent change. And even if it is, they still could've subbed for him while Artie had time to practice, practice, practice. The idea someone had of Gonzo in a Kermit suit at AGT was hillarious, and Gonzo again would've made a much more sensible date for Gaga than Kermit. Or Animal.

This is a really personal topic for a lot of people, and if my post seems inflamed it's because I get a bit enraged when people basically tell me that I can't express my opinion. That's what this forum was formed to do, wasn't it? A group of Muppet fans talking about the Muppets.

Is anyone here a Doctor Who fan? For those who don't know, the Doctor on DW can regenerate, enabling multiple actors to play the same role, and for the character to continue once the actor decides to move on. Half of the community ADORES the current Doctor, David Tennant, and the other half hates him. But nobody says, "You can't hate him! He's the Doctor!" He's said himself, that kind of publicity COMES with the role. Matt Smith is about to take over for him, and people already love or hate him before he's even stepped onto the screen. It's the NATURE of fandom, you can't change it. And if you're a performer, you should definitely learn to accept it.

Sorry so long.

 

[GuySmileyfan]

I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, I still don't understand why people are so upset by Steve not performing Kermit. I just watched the clip of him and Lady Gaga at the VMA's and actually thought he sounded BETTER then on America's Got Talent. I'm not saying we don't have a right to not judge or be critical as fans but I've just read alot of posts here and on other fan sites that Artie sucks, it's not Kermit, etc. It just seems kind of unfair to Artie that's all. I just feel like the guy's probably under enough pressure these days and to come onto a board and read such negative comments about his performances of late would be a little discouraging.

I agree. It does sound better than America's Got Talent. But we still need Steve Whitmire back.

 

[Super Scooter]

Sarah, I don't think your post was too inflamed at all, but passionately and very well put.

Quite frankly, I have no idea who Artie even is! But, as Sarah said, for the most part I don't think people are bashing him. They're upset that Kermit wasn't Kermit. That's all.

I've had to defend Steve Whitmire so many times on this board, isn't it about time I got to be on the other side of things?

 

[MelissaY1]

I can only answer for myself. I am so upset by Steve not performing Kermit, in part because I am so loyal to Steve, and in part because I am so loyal to Kermit. If this was not Steve's choice, I will stand by him. And if this was Steve's choice, I will stand by my opinion that Kermit deserves only the very best puppeteers and that what I saw on AGT and the VMA's was not up to the quality that we have seen Kermit performed at in the past 50 years.


I agree! It WAS better! But better doesn't necessarily mean "great" or "up to the standard we should hold everyone." If you get an F on a paper and then a D on the next, your parents aren't going to applaud you for doing better. You're still not passing.


I don't mean to be rude to Artie. I'm sure he's a very nice man and very talented. But not every nice, talented person is meant to be the leader of the Muppets. I am not going to throw my support behind a person whose performance, I feel, is not up to snuff. And I'm sure it's hard to read negative comments but again, I have to say, tough. That's the nature of the internet. People have a place to express any opinion they might have, positive or negative. I'm sure Artie understands that. If I was in a major spotlight and every moron with a Twitter account said I was awful, I would want to prove those people wrong.




I don't think a single person is criticizing Artie personally. I have read every post on every thread on this topic and the overall opinion is that he's a great guy they enjoyed talking to on the boards, and their happy for him as an acquaintance. Now, I have seen people bash Steve as a person NUMEROUS times. He's too young to play Kermit. His own personality is wrong for the character. He doesn't get it. Steve and Dave's friendship is forcing Fozzie out of the picture.

And the difference is, Jim died. We knew, going into it, if Kermit was going to be a part of the Muppets, he would have to be played by someone else. It wasn't a shock when we saw Steve's performances. They might have been different but they weren't a shock. Artie's--to no fault of his--were a shock. I'm still in shock. Maybe that's why passions are so high here. I will be the first person to say that my own feelings about Steve may make me prejudiced against Artie, and I appologize that. But I adore Steve--as a talented Muppeteer and as a person. And it physically pains me to see someone else take over Kermit.

Maybe I'm being too harsh--I probably am, and I don't mean to be. I'm just really sick and tired of people TELLING me how I can feel. Someone up thread, or on a different thread, said, "I actually didn't like LTS" and someone actually said back, "You are WRONG. LTS is amazing" or something to that effect. And I thought, "How can someone's opinion of a movie be wrong?" It can't. That's why it's an opinion and not a fact.


I disagree. If someone I'm friends with took up the mantle of Kermit, I would say, "I am so happy for you." And if he asked me what I thought, I'd give him my honest opinion, even if that was, "You need a lot of work." Why does it have to be different on boards?

No one ever said they weren't happy for Artie--I'm sure we are! It's an exciting time for him and that's just unbelievable that he's one of the rare people who get to live his dream!



Again, I disagree. I'd rather no Kermit than a Kermit that strikes me as false. There are plenty of other Muppets that could've subbed in for him, if this isn't a permanent change. And even if it is, they still could've subbed for him while Artie had time to practice, practice, practice. The idea someone had of Gonzo in a Kermit suit at AGT was hillarious, and Gonzo again would've made a much more sensible date for Gaga than Kermit. Or Animal.

This is a really personal topic for a lot of people, and if my post seems inflamed it's because I get a bit enraged when people basically tell me that I can't express my opinion. That's what this forum was formed to do, wasn't it? A group of Muppet fans talking about the Muppets.

Is anyone here a Doctor Who fan? For those who don't know, the Doctor on DW can regenerate, enabling multiple actors to play the same role, and for the character to continue once the actor decides to move on. Half of the community ADORES the current Doctor, David Tennant, and the other half hates him. But nobody says, "You can't hate him! He's the Doctor!" He's said himself, that kind of publicity COMES with the role. Matt Smith is about to take over for him, and people already love or hate him before he's even stepped onto the screen. It's the NATURE of fandom, you can't change it. And if you're a performer, you should definitely learn to accept it.

Sorry so long.

Sarah I'm not telling you or anyone else here how to feel, I just don't understand alot of the why's. Believe me, I am just as huge a fan of Steve Whitmire's as you are. I've been corresponding with him online since I was 13 years old (I'll be 32 this year), with his support and friendship over the years I have visited the sets of Sesame, been personally invited to the set of Muppet Treasure Island in the UK back in 1995 to not only have the opportunity to have my dream come true and meet Kermit but to get to see my favorite actor Tim Curry film a movie! And I even interned for the Jim Henson Company back in 1999 in the NYC Muppet Workshop when I was in college with Steve's full support (however he did NOT get me the internship just for the record). I would be the last person here who would want to see Steve not perform Kermit or retire or whatever the situation is that's going on.

And I totally agree with the fact that the internet message boards SHOULD be a place to express opinions, for better or for worse. I have gotten into many arguments with people online about that over the years and one site even banned me because they felt I wasn't allowed to be me on there.

But getting back to the topic at hand, no, you're right if Artie's a true professional he should be able to ignore negative comments online. I just feel kind of bad for the guy, that's all. And I have to disagree that when Steve first took over Kermit nobody was shocked. I was on several Muppet groups when the internet bulletin boards were still in their infancy and people were upset, didn't like Steve's voice, said he sucked, thought he was a watered down version of Jim's Kermit. I've heard it all over the years. I never personally heard anyone bash Steve as a human being whether it was fans or people who have worked with him (and I've met many over the years and during my internship).

So again I'm not trying to tell you or anyone else here HOW to feel I just don't understand why there is so much negativity and I think people are just getting more worked up then there needs to be, that's all.

 

[frogboy4]

I didn't think the voice was that bad, but I WILL agree with you on the spark that is missing from the character. It is the spark that I joyously have found in Eric Jacobson's Grover. Not only is the voice good, but his delivery, cadence, physical trademarks of Grover are spot on to Frank's Grover.

I certainly believe Kermit's character has to come from within the performer and I believe Artie will find that which goes back to my earlier posts that we have to give him a chance. He's only done two live performances so far as the frog so far that we've seen. And I agree I want to see that spirit back to Kermit return.

I'm glad you brought up Grover. That's a perfect example of how a recast can shine.

I still think there's some sort of negotiations behind the scenes or else Disney would have confirmed (at least to the fans) that the torch had been passed. It's easy to see how much Steve enjoys performing Kermit. It appears that Artie was kind of put in that position without much notice. I'm still pulling for Steve, but most of all I'm pulling for Kermit.