Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie

[beaker]

Originally posted by sidcrowe
I had no problem with the fat gay Muppet...thought it was a cute bit with the dancers

I'd also guess that if you walked around any playground today, you'd find "sucks" is pretty much already used, accepted, and tolerated.

I REALLY like Beaker's idea for a Muppet movie

Thanks man! Yeah, Ive heard people from the JHC offices and related folk come in to take looksie under psuedonyms...
if thats true:

1. I really apologize if at any time I have seemed off kilter, not myself, or judgemental. My biggest wish is for the Muppets to be back in top form...this feeling I had growing up in the 80's, that sort of thing.

2. I believe I can offer one of the most pivotal and ambitious ideas for not just a new Muppet movie but the upcoming show, etc. The Mastercard commercial was a step in the right direction. As Muppet fans, we absolutely yearn for outside real life location shots.

3. As fans...well speaking for myself I will stand behind any buyout decision when it is made.

 

[Luke]

Originally posted by frogboy4
As for me, I do hope the Muppets continue down this road. I didn't really hear any negative magazine or newspaper reviews that cited any of the controversies expressed in these threads so that's a good thing. I sometimes think we all have our own private take on what the Muppets really are.

From what i hear i think maybe they should have maybe moved a little (and i mean tiny) bit slower down the road for NBC - just a taster of edgy so they could gauge reaction and then developed it more for Fox but overall i think the faster pace and edginess is a good thing - it definitely opens them up for a lot more popularity and press next year. I think they have to be careful not to totally turn off the families too though with the new Fox show(not saying they did or didn't do this with the movie - they probably just stood right on the line) as i think the nostalgia bubble will burst towards the end of next year just like the reality one but Team Todd's style is very much that of what's fashionable right now - just hope it stays that way. There's a part of me that likes the Todd's producing the new series because the Muppets need a fresh direction but also they may well tip the scales a little too far as they aren't experienced with the Muppets and their audience, just working to the brief but i'm sure Henson will keep a tight control over the edits and know har far they want to go.

As for the magazines and newspapers expressing anything of the less positive stuff thats been said in these threads actually i think one said there wasn't quite enough traditional Muppet fare in it and also that it was less for kids, but overall i think the press were pre-warned and wrote in previews that the style is moving a little 'edgier' and more focused towards getting laughs than being caring fluffy wuffy puppets so it's no big deal - i guess they probably agree that the brand should move with it's audience and i agree to an extent (being in their main target age group) though it's not the greatest thing and i'm sure quite a suprise for people with very young children who could usually sit down and watch things like MFS with no problems to suddenly find the Muppets have moved on a little further away from them although i don't feel anything THAT drastic has happened yet.

It must be quite difficult to make any change in direction (even slight) for puppets like the 'Muppets' because they've never really gone that far out of the spotlight and continued with a steady audience of kids and adults. Over here we've had some childhood friendly puppets come back and turn all edgy but then all kid interest was totally wiped out in their absence and so they just catered to students, then you have Greg and ALF who have always been edgy in style but with Kermit and Co you still have these cute looking puppets and they are so famous everybody knows their characters and has their own view of them. It must make gauging whatever changes come out of their mouths very difficult indeed to get right and still be the classic Muppets we all know and love.

Just my inherent ramblings at 2:30am in the morning - if i sound incoherent just raise an eyebrow and move on !

 

[Misfit Toy]

Originally posted by Luke
Just my inherent ramblings at 2:30am in the morning - if i sound incoherent just raise an eyebrow and move on !

LOL. Will do j/k

 

[sidcrowe]

Beaker:

Keep posting then....we can never tell when the day MAY come that the Henson people might grab a few of us HARDCORE fans for input. And all the hardcore fans are here

Remember, that crack from Kermit about "Muppet fans sites" meant US

 

[frogboy4]

Luke

Yeah, they certainly wouldn't want to turn off too many families. I have always been unfomfortable labeling the Muppet Show characters as "Family Entertainment" even though JHC has pegged them that way for the last decade or so. I just see them as entertainment. I wouldn't want the characters to become as crass like the Simpsons. That's great for Groening, but not for Henson's characters. I don't think the special went anywhere near that mark. The song at the end really represented what the Muppets are all about. I wish there had been more songs. But we must remember - more songs = more potential cuts in the future.

It's a fine line that Henson will have to walk. Some may think they crossed it. I just think it was jarring. I still think people were more shocked by seening Scooter's skinny orange legs than him wearing the black shorts and shirt.

Oh, and I just watched the Weezer video special again and noticed Pepe cuddling up to a bikini model's breast in the B-roll that Rowlf was editing in the control room. Thought that was interesting. No one complained them. Hmmmmm.

 

[beaker]

Originally posted by sidcrowe
Beaker:

Keep posting then....we can never tell when the day MAY come that the Henson people might grab a few of us HARDCORE fans for input. And all the hardcore fans are here

Remember, that crack from Kermit about "Muppet fans sites" meant US

Heh, thanks man! I swear Ive gotten a huge new boost of creative inspiration and hope for the Muppets since seeing the new Muppet film(and I thought it was horribly paced in a lot of spots) I for one will make a concerted effort to not get involved in flame wars(at least the best I can do) and to do my best to arouse fan participation and community growth.

As for fan input for JHC...well JHC is in an interesting position.
Perhaps things would be more sticky if Sesame was under JHC's control...but the Muppets can go as far as they wanna push it without any reprecautions to the children's shows. Perhaps the only benefit of that EM.TV fiasco. So what does this mean? Well
Team Todd and Fox are gonna be in the driver's seat with the Fox show, which is a good thing. Not saying JHC doesnt have any final word, but I think they'll be able to go places farther than ever before. So what does this mean for fan input? It means Kermit mentioning fan sites on a movie might just be the beginning of things once thought unthinkable or impossible just a year ago. I see a lot of wink and nods coming our way folks.

JHC isnt in a creative vaccuum(I hope) Yes we see stuff like KSY, and the like. But I think JHC has realized(As well as their business partners who want financial returns not sentimental coddling)
what they need to do in the new year: And thats new things, and edhy and audacious directions.

Btw, dont worry, you think 2:30 am is bad? Ive been known to be on MC at 5:30 AM recently. How my virtual every waking breath is spent thinking or working on Muppet related things I have no idea, but I need some balance in life, heh.

Cory...life at a balance and at a crossroads.

 

[beaker]

Re: Luke

Originally posted by frogboy4
It's a fine line that Henson will have to walk. Some may think they crossed it. I just think it was jarring. I still think people were more shocked by seening Scooter's skinny orange legs than him wearing the black shorts and shirt.

Oh, and I just watched the Weezer video special again and noticed Pepe cuddling up to a bikini model's breast in the B-roll that Rowlf was editing in the control room. Thought that was interesting. No one complained them. Hmmmmm.

Well I have an idea of what JHC might be trying to do with Scooter in the coming year, but I'll leave that for people to decide. Let's just say I think some perceptions will be destroyed.

Second, you will always find that the Muppets are never strictly G rated all the time. And thats the great thing, because they are like us. Theyre not perfect, yet in the end they always get across their message of friendship, harmony, and love. Thats what people should focus on, not about inuendo or whatnot.

I can pick out virtually any era in the Muppet's rich near half a century(yes Muppet fans, be proud...the Muppets have been around nearly HALF A CENTURY!) and point out some very inappropriate moments(the arsenio hall, muppetfest, jhh, land of gorch, etc examples have been made) Heck I went through the entire Muppets CD-Rom game and two instances of inuendo were present(a Whatnot muppet cameo who says 'B**tard'...then again he was a computer 'cursor', and Kermit referencing male reproductive fluid) And man, dont you guys remember all the near tv14 things said on Family Feud? Didnt Sweetums talk about 'cr*pping his pants' along with jokes about birth control and other sex stuff?

People need to get out of this box they keep pidgeonholing the Muppets in.

 

[FellowWLover]

Re: Luke

Originally posted by frogboy4

Oh, and I just watched the Weezer video special again and noticed Pepe cuddling up to a bikini model's breast in the B-roll that Rowlf was editing in the control room. Thought that was interesting. No one complained them. Hmmmmm.

MTV videos aren't usually considered to be family fare as, say, a Christmas movie might be.

 

[Luke]

Originally posted by beaker
but the Muppets can go as far as they wanna push it without any reprecautions to the children's shows. Perhaps the only benefit of that EM.TV fiasco. So what does this mean? Well
Team Todd and Fox are gonna be in the driver's seat with the Fox show, which is a good thing. Not saying JHC doesnt have any final word, but I think they'll be able to go places farther than ever before. So what does this mean for fan input? It means Kermit mentioning fan sites on a movie might just be the beginning of things once thought unthinkable or impossible just a year ago. I see a lot of wink and nods coming our way folks.

I hate to burst the bubble Cor and the mass enthusiasm is duly noted but i don't think 'Todd' are going to be taking that much notice of the fan input. They work to a brief and have no real background with the Muppets - they are basically there to work the project into a cool up-to-date style like Austin Powers or The Simpsons. I'm not sure who's writing the new Fox show but i think any generic nods to fans are just done as a cool ways to acknowledge the viewer which has been very popular with the Simpsons (it's not like by saying internet fansite they are waving at Phil and Danny - more of a comic book guy type reference) - i don't really see any mass enlightenment at JHC that they need to look at fan input for what they're doing .... if anything they know what they are doing better than we do. I mean yeah sure there are people at Henson who might come to the fansites to gauge reaction on a project but i think all the new stuff is because they personally have acknowledged that the present route wasn't working so Kirk Thatcher was given the brief to 'bring back the magic' and it's no secret people at Henson are very pleased with the movie.

'Todd' producing the new show does mean they can push some boundaries and insert a new and fresher creative direction but i don't think it gives them the excuse to go all out - there are way bigger fish above them and the Muppet brand is worth multi-millions. They will be so protective of what any character says or does ..... i'd think the level of 'edgyness' in the movie was studied, changed, closely monitored and the subject of many discussions at the Henson Company. I don't think you'll ever see the Muppets abandon the kids or families, just they want to widen the boundaries a little. Doing something ultra-controversial would bring about the wrong kind of press and make enemies - i'm pretty sure anything new from Kermit & Co will only just about touch the level of 'The Simpsons'.

 

[Gonzo]

We've seen Muppets consume alcohol before....

"If you put enough sugar in this, it tastes just like Ginger Ale!"

In the Great Muppet Caper, Kermit, Piggy, and Fozzie all drink champagne, and we've seen Kermit and Piggy drinking the finest wine in Idaho, and there have been plenty others.

I've never even tasted alcohol, and I haven't been offended by it.

And Animal was drinking Egg Nog.

And if Scooter just came out of a decade-long coma, he deserves to get lit.

Quinnnnnnnnn