Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie

[beaker]

I think the Muppets are in kind of a awkward moment right now...
with the crash of the innocence of the 80's coming to an end in the 90's, and this decade plus long lull JHC and the Muppets have been in...well the Muppets are at a crossroads in life.

It's a little frustrating to see the Muppets get mired in current pop references, the Croc Hunter, Grinch, and Fear Factor bits alreadt seemed dated.

I have a bold vision of the Muppets for the future...I wish so bad
I was able to have some form of creative input at JHC. A lot of folks think what they saw Friday night was edgy, but I have in mind something thats light years more edgy while still being family friendly.

My vision for the next Muppet film would be something very unexpected...my dream would to have The Cell's Tarzim Singh or
Being John Malkovich's Spike Jonze direct a PG rated Muppet film with extordinary cinematography, set desgins by Eiko or the team responsible for the set production on the movie 'Toys(1992)'
and writing that would blow people away. I think the film would open with something akin to that 'Zoot sleeping in the desert'
famous Muppet art parody...with Kermit standing alone in the desert thinking about where hes been and where hes going.
I would also love to see a collaboration with Creature Shop to come up with some truly inspired Skeksis like villains to pose a serious threat...not some bumbling humans.

I realize my ideas for a muppet film might be a bit too ambitious for the time period, but I swear I wish yiu could get a glimpse into a 5 minute snippet from this un filmed movie in my head...
real life locations in Tunisia, Tokyo, Manhattan...all new original songs with the kind of ethereal magical quality of Fraggle Rock meets an orchestral score...zero cheesey/no embarassing MFS/AoEiG/KSY/MCM human scenes...cameos from Sesame, Mopatop, Fraggle Rock...the return of Digit, Leon, etc...
basically the plot would be in a weird way akin to Roger Rabbit or Star Wars...Kermit would have to go around the globe to gather up every single Muppet past present and future to stand up against this emerging threat(insert awe inspiring creature shop grotesque characters) Imagine being able to see what the Fraggles have been up to, and where Muppets we havent seen in ages are doing?

That is my dream, and I hope someday, even if its a millennium from now, an idea like this makes it...as I am seriously saddened byt he script ideas JHC has in mind(the cheap movie, halloween hotel, and time machine ones respectively)

Anyways, one can always dream!

 

[Gonzo]

Spike Jonze and the Muppets....THAT would be brilliant.

Wow.

I just saw this today, and I had been reading snippets of what y'all were saying before I saw it, and I was readying myself for disappointment of "MFS" proportions.

You know what? I really liked it. A lot. I'm not sure if I "loved" it yet, but I really enjoyed it. A few comments on this thread (of over 150 messages!) :

Jessica: I hope no one has said that you're a bad parent, or over-sensitive, or anything of the kind. I think you're doing what's best for you and your family, and I'm sorry that this was a downer for you and Emileigh. And I'm sorry if I just spelled her name wrong! Having a child DOES radically change your perspective, and although Miles is still pretty oblivious, if anything ever made him uncomfortable, I'd drop it too. You seem like you're an amazing mother, and your daughter trusts you to make decisions to help her. Keep it up.

Joggy: Give this a chance. It's not NEARLY as extreme as this thread is making it out to be. I honestly, HONESTLY don't think it's any more extreme than what we've seen on The Muppet Show and six films...innuendo has been a part of most of the Muppet productions, and I don't think this is any more twisted or "in your face" than what's come before.

Kermit's "suicide" is lifted directly from "It's a Wonderful Life," and is MUCH less scary and dark than what George does there. Kermit wasn't suicidal. Not like that. And it set the stage for what I've always wanted to see--what if the Muppets had never gotten together? Kinda like "The Muppet Movie" through the looking glass....

I don't think Pepe's actions or language are any worse or more extreme than what we've seen and laughed at for years from Animal and Miss Piggy (among others). And it was positively tame compared to some of what Rizzo has done...

As for the darkness and scariness of some of it, again, some of that is related to the source material, but I think children would be MORE frightened by "A Muppet Christmas Carol" and "Muppet Treasure Island;" both of which have more violence (including Robin's "death" and gunplay) and some innuendo, too.

I think if I were a pup, I would have been bored at the slow parts (like I have been in most of the Muppet movies, including TMM, TGMC, MTM...okay, yeah, all of them...), especially the heaven scenes....although I did like that heaven had a couch and a pastoral setting. It could have picked up the pace quite a bit by cutting some of that unnecessary exposition and putting some more of the songs in it. I also think this could have been due to the too-quick writing and production period. 9 months isn't really sufficient to pull off something like this, and I think they could have edited it a bit better.

One last comment--I'll get to what I personally liked and thought about it in a minute....

I'm wondering (in a "Wonderful Life" mood myself, evidently) what we would have thought of this if the internet weren't around. Sometimes I think that the net is just a place for everyone to gripe about what's wrong with everything in the world, much like Comic Book Guy's "worst episode EVER" comments. There's always room for valid criticisms, and that's what we all think we have...but in a world without the net, I'm wondering if I would have been happier with this. I mean, it's wonderful to discuss with y'all, but sometimes I'm frustrated with the constant harping on different things. I dunno. My thoughts aren't quite clear on this yet. So I probably shouldn't post it.

I can just see us all 25 years ago (even those of you who weren't born) discussing "last night's episode of The Muppet Show and how much it "sucked"...and who is that loser with the Boomerang Fish, and why did he replace George? Let's start a campaign to bring back George and Hilda! And why did they rebuild Gonzo? He was so much better before!!!"

Muh.

Quinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

 

[scarecroe]

Originally posted by beaker
Scarecrow is gonna be the only one who gets this...but the next Muppet film should be directed by Godfrey Reggio with music by Phillip Glass...itd be about the current awkward state of trying to appeal to the current hip generation while being conflicted with being children's entertainment, as well as the current state of JHC...itd be called 'Kermitisqatsi: flippers out of balance'.

I'm all for it!

http://scarecroe.com/files/kermisqatsi_01.jpg

PS: I'm right with ya on Spike Jonze doing a Muppet film. Perhaps Being The Great Gonzo would make more sense than Muppets From Space did.

 

[beaker]

scarecrow and quinn:

Scarecrow:

Holy *insert word I'd get bleeped for*, Scott, you are a visionary.
Did you do a neural temperal lobe hack into my brain?
I want you all to look at that picture Scott doctored...that scene is pretty close to how I imagine just one scene out of my as yet unmade visionary epic. All this nagging about how the muppets are sinking to new lows or arent edgy or are too in the now or the like...I truly wish I could pull together a think tank to explore the idea of what could be the mother of all Muppet movies.

My vision for a new Muppet film is something very rich, cinematic, bold, visionary, and something so new and ambitious it's hard to even speak about it. It would be timeless, flowing like sands of time...a Muppet film of epic proportions.

My vision of a Muppet film would literally have everyone in the audience speachless...imagine a scene with Kermit walking through a desert and he happens upon a cgi digital oragami like Muppet? Im thinking of the cinematography from The Cell, The English Patient, What Dreams May Come, contemporary Manhattan in a Spike Jonze style...something that would truly transcend what we til now have come to known. All we know in out modern life is a Muppet film every few years that is ok to mediocre thats rooted in fake sets and bad human actors.

But what if JHC decided to combine the Muppets Take Manhattan with Dark Crystal and push it to something even the academy of motion pictures would see and take notice.

An open letter to JHC...please please do not proceed with plans for any of the slated ill concieved Muppet scripts, as its not worthy of the Muppets true potential. I am almost willing to devote virtually every waking hour to finally penning this idea I have along with character sketches and storyboards if people would take interest.

Now to Quinn...I just thought of something. Awhile back I posed the question, what if the internet had been around in the 80's? Sure a lot of us would only be 8-14...but would we be complaining about Tales from the bunny picnic , or picking apart MFC or JHH?

Stephen Hawkings talks about entropy...well let us imagine our own alternate universe ala in IAVMMCM where we did have the net back then, and again in the present without the advent of the net...would we have not been tainted by others thoughts?

So many existential and out there questions to think about, as yes Quinn...we have developed a culture online of being the comic book guy from the Simpsons about everything.

Finally to both you guys again...I dont mean to step on Thatcher or Hill or any recent Muppet film director's toes...but I think its finally time for JHC to go way out on a limb and bring in somebody like Jonze, Soderbergh, Aronofsky, etc.

 

[SuperGrover]

Only on Muppet Central.

I think the problem is that so few have any imagination anymore. Sure you're used to believing in the abstract idea of a beautiful blond pig or a frog that sings and dances, but Whoopi as The Boss? Heck no. That's as silly as believing in Santa Claus.

Kids of all ages don't have any imagination anymore. Innuendos are commonplace to them. They mischievously look for it, expect it, interpret it in everything. Even when it's not always present. That's what I think the jest of the innuendo joke was meant to be poking fun at in this fabulous new Muppet Christmas movie, that by the way, my whole family loved.

It was fresh and new and, considering how many times the Muppets have done Christmas, was still something different that they haven't done before. It was real. It was the Muppets' version of the traditional more adult-themed classic, "It's a Wonderful Life" movie (not "A Charlie Brown Christmas" special) yet with plenty of Frosty, Rudolph and The Grinch thrown in for the kids. And it did include Triumph the Insult Dog in the list of cameo appearances during the on-screen credits at the beginning of the show. So fair warning there.

But fair is fair. Either you liked it, or you didn't. I loved it! A+++

 

[beaker]

FROGYQATSI

Scarecrow: I thought I'd just tweak your parody just a bit...
I now present a joint Scott and Cory production of a Godfrey Reggio film:

FROGYQATSI: Life As War

Frog-y-qatsi: (frahg eee' kahtsee) N. From the Hopi Language. 1. A life in transition toward the future, at a crossroads.
2. At war or conflict with being children's entertainment versus obliging to current oblivious pop culture.

http://forums.palisadestoys.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=11648

 

[FellowWLover]

Originally posted by Chilly Down
Whoa, whoa, whoa! When did I ever say you were "blowing it out of porportion," or that this was "tame"? I said I was proud of Emiliegh for being able to identify what was wrong. My point was not that I wanted sleazy stuff. My beef was that people were saying that the Muppets have never done anything that resembles this before, and that's simply illogical, not based in fact. I don't think the brief moments we saw Friday night will bring the enterprise crashing to its knees. That doesn't mean I liked everything I saw. So please don't sample my quote about "right and wrong" at the end and make it seem as if I said it all.

I never said I was shocked that you said this. Good for you for standing up for your honest feelings about the movie. And good for you for not letting your daughter see Shrek, either.

Oh! I know, I know, I am so sorry. That part of the message was not directed to you. I used your idea to answer some other people who *had* said those things. I thought your post was very well written and thoughtful. I was just trying to answer a lot of people in one post instead of writing to each person. Sorry if you thought I was speaking only to you! That is what I get for being lazy.

 

[matleo]

Originally posted by Gonzo

Kermit's "suicide" is lifted directly from "It's a Wonderful Life," and is MUCH less scary and dark than what George does there. Kermit wasn't suicidal.

Actually, I never thought of it as Kermit trying to commit suicide. In "It's Wonderful Life" Jimmy Stewart DOES. He is told he is worth more dead than alive because of his insurance or something and he goes throws himself off a bridge.

While Kermit does freeze outside I didn't think of it as a conscious effort to try and kill himself. even when he thouth he was better off if he had never been born, I think of that differently then trying to kill himself. I mean it wasn't like Kermit left a note scribbled in the snow and then before tying one soem lead shows and wlaking of the pier. Really I don't know where people got Kermit commiting suicide from. But thats just me.

--Matt

 

[sidcrowe]

Froggy:

Quit what?

Hee hee hee

 

[tomahawk]

just a quick note, on the news this morning it was reported that the muppet x-mas movie won it's ratings time slot. this hopefully is some really bright news.