"The Draidle Game"

[Convincing John]

They also had an episode (according to the interview) about VD's.

Really?

Holy cow...

Man, you wouldn't see that on any (non Adult Swim) cartoon nowadays.

 

[Drtooth]

Actually, the interview SAID there was one, but I actually can't find any info if one existed... but there WAS one about teen pregnancy (probably talked about it there)... and of course, drugs (where Fat Albert becomes an unwitting delivery boy and winds up taking down the drug dealing brother of a friend... and it actually gets complicated for an early season episode). But once they left network, syndication had a much less rigorous censorship and it gave them a platform to REALLY talk about stff.

Let me amend what I said earlier... as I was writing this, I was trying to find a list of episodes, and I found This... okay, so they DID do a VD episode... amazing.

 

[Daffyfan4ever]

Wow! First I didn't get any replies here, now we got into some deep topics. By sheer coincidence I was watching 'Big Bird in China' today and I was surprised that Big Bird threatened to beat up that monkey. Seems like they could get away with more in the earlier episodes than they are able to get away with now.

 

[Drtooth]

Wow! First I didn't get any replies here, now we got into some deep topics. By sheer coincidence I was watching 'Big Bird in China' today and I was surprised that Big Bird threatened to beat up that monkey. Seems like they could get away with more in the earlier episodes than they are able to get away with now.

Buddha wanted to beat up Sun WuKong! Buddha! That's how bad the Monkey King was. At least with Big Bird, the Monkey didn't relieve himself on him... I only know basic bits about Journey to the West (where that Monkey came from) but... ol' Monkey King is beyond frustrating to deal with.

 

[GonzoLeaper]

I agree that Sesame Street was right to teach about the religious aspects of both Christmas and Hanukkah--up to a point. They are religious holidays, despite the wealth of secular traditions that have developed: not telling a curious 3-year-old that much is intellectually dishonest.

I myself, on the other hand, am neither Christian nor Jewish; if I had children, I'd teach them about all three of Elmo's "happy holidays" in terms of "This is what some people believe, do and celebrate." Whether Jesus was divine or not, or rose from the dead or not--that kind of teaching belongs on a dedicated religious TV show, not on one meant to teach a broad curriculum to children of all faiths. The same goes for the spiritual meaning of the Hanukkah story: that kind of discussion belongs in Hebrew school or at home, not on a TV show created to teach all children about many subjects.

Okay- that's about what I had surmised. And that's what I was trying to say- to ignore the religious aspects of Christmas and Hannukah when presenting it to kids is intellectually dishonest- especially when it's coming from a show that is supposed to be all about education for children. Religious education is important too. I still contend that Sesame Street could have said that Jesus came to be the Savior- I feel like that would have been a simple enough way to approach it. And as others have said- apparently that's a line that they're not willing to cross and should not cross in the view of some. I guess that gets to be a very tricky line to determine on what should and shouldn't be said on certain topics- religion or as others have mentioned, divorce, drugs, death, out-of-wedlock pregnancies, sexually transmitted diseases, etc. But they've done what they're going to do and there's no need to complain about it now. Like I said- I'm glad they even mentioned the birth of Christ at all.

And wouldn't you know...relating this to Sesame Street, they actually dealt with stealing a few times, plus the consequence of going to jail.

One episode dealt with some random monster daring Telly to steal a zucchini off of Mr. Macintosh's cart (I just remember seeing it in the 1980's, I can't find the clip of it). Telly freaks out after taking it, then gives it back, still freaking out about what will happen to him. Naturally, he's forgiven. Dunno what happened to the other monster, though.

Hey, Convincing John- I also remember one particular Sesame Street episode about stealing from the 1980s and I've been trying to find someone who remembers some more on this as well. I recall an episode that started with Telly in the arbor area one morning, who was about to have an orange and he had set down on one of those crates while he went do something else. And while he was gone, some huge monster came up and stole it. And from there, the rest of the episode has this monster going around and stealing things and everyone is wondering why things keep disappearing. I seem to recall that the monster is finally caught at the end of the episode by Big Bird's nest and I think Maria is on hand to explain to him that taking things from someone else without asking is called stealing and it's wrong. And then the monster apologizes for stealing and now he knows to ask first. And everything is good again. Does anyone remember that episode? I remember the monster was kinda freaky to me as a kid- but after searching Muppet Wiki for him- I'm thinking it may have been Old McDougal (http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Old_McDougal)

 

[CensoredAlso]

Okay- that's about what I had surmised. And that's what I was trying to say- to ignore the religious aspects of Christmas and Hannukah when presenting it to kids is intellectually dishonest- especially when it's coming from a show that is supposed to be all about education for children.

I agree; there's nothing educational or particularly helpful about Political Correctness. It's all based in fear and irrationality.

Sesame Street had already addressed the concept of faith very well in Christmas Eve on Sesame Street in a subtle yet meaningful way. And then parents are free to expand on that for their kids with whatever beliefs they have.

 

[GonzoLeaper]

Sesame Street had already addressed the concept of faith very well in Christmas Eve on Sesame Street in a subtle yet meaningful way. And then parents are free to expand on that for their kids with whatever beliefs they have.

They did a masterful job with this- I love it! I've seen Christmas Eve on Sesame Street probably a gazillion times and I still love watching it all the time- yes, every year at Christmas but also just whenever during the year I'm in the mood for some Christmas fun. I don't care- I love Christmas and love celebrating all year long.

 

[StreetScenes]

Okay- that's about what I had surmised. And that's what I was trying to say- to ignore the religious aspects of Christmas and Hannukah when presenting it to kids is intellectually dishonest- especially when it's coming from a show that is supposed to be all about education for children. Religious education is important too. I still contend that Sesame Street could have said that Jesus came to be the Savior- I feel like that would have been a simple enough way to approach it.

I see what you're saying--that presenting aspects of a religion without explaining that it's a whole belief system doesn't really explain anything. But how could they have said that Jesus came to be the savior, and then done the Jewish part of the show where they'd have to say, no, actually he's still a good guy, but not THE savior, the savior hasn't come yet. And then do the kwanzaa bit and say, well, the savior doesn't enter into it, you could believe either way and kwanzaa would still work. And they'd have to explain the concept of a savior, so they'd have to explain the concept of sin...abstract ideas like that are far more complicated to explain than they appear, especially to adults who believe in them and who have been familiar with them for many years.

The way all the Christians have posted in this thread, all the statements about Jesus being the savior are presented as truth. Because the religion, as a belief system, presents it as truth. So how would you explain different religions to a toddler, in the context of a show that doesn't promote a specific religion (i.e. without saying one is true and the others are not)? there are different truths? Some people believe this, and other people believe that, and still more believe something different? If they presented it like that, it would imply to the child that all religions are fictional stories, and that is just as poor an explanation of what religion is as not mentioning faith at all.

I didn't see the elmo's world special, but i've heard nothing but good things about it. It seems that they're trying to explain some of the things that kids might see or hear in December, so images like a draidel or words like "Jesus" will be familiar and kids will recognize that these holidays are celebrations and they're about family, etc. That's a very different thing than leaving stuff out to be politically correct.

 

[GonzoLeaper]

Christmas specifically celebrates Jesus coming to Earth to be the Savior. (Matthew 1:21)
Hannukah and Kwanzaa have nothing to do with it. Judaism does not believe in Jesus as the Messiah, so why would Sesame Street even mention their opinion on Christ?
Kwanzaa is not even a religious holiday, but a cultural one celebrating African heritage. (see http://www.officialkwanzaawebsite.org/origins1.shtml for more on that). So there would be no need to mention Dr. Maulana Karenga's personal view of Christ, since the holiday is open to people of all religious faiths.
I still don't see how fully explaining the purpose and identity of Jesus as the Savior would have been that much of a stretch for Sesame Street.
Any further questions about God and beliefs about Him could and should be talked out between the kids and parents.

The way all the Christians have posted in this thread, all the statements about Jesus being the savior are presented as truth.

Well, that would be because Jesus is The Way, The Truth and The Life.

 

[StreetScenes]

Christmas specifically celebrates Jesus coming to Earth to be the Savior. (Matthew 1:21)
Hannukah and Kwanzaa have nothing to do with it. Judaism does not believe in Jesus as the Messiah, so why would Sesame Street even mention their opinion on Christ?
Kwanzaa is not even a religious holiday, but a cultural one celebrating African heritage. (see http://www.officialkwanzaawebsite.org/origins1.shtml for more on that). So there would be no need to mention Dr. Maulana Karenga's personal view of Christ, since the holiday is open to people of all religious faiths.
I still don't see how fully explaining the purpose and identity of Jesus as the Savior would have been that much of a stretch for Sesame Street.
Any further questions about God and beliefs about Him could and should be talked out between the kids and parents.

Well, that would be because Jesus is The Way, The Truth and The Life.

It may be simple to you, but you've spent a lot of time reading, listening, and thinking about it. The statements you make here are quite foreign and complicated to anyone who has not spent a lot of time reading, listening, and thinking about it--i.e. to people who were raised in different religions, and to very young children.

Plus, your statements are presented as truth, because you see them as truth. But millions and millions of people in this world see them as statements of Christian belief. No one can present what you've said as truth without promoting the Christian religion as truth. If this were a college curriculum, your statements would belong in a Theology class. Sesame Street's special would belong in a Religious Studies class--they attempt to expose kids to multiple religious celebrations without saying any one of them is the "right" one.

To say that Jesus is the way the truth and the life is to say Christianity is the truth. To present it in a tv show as Christian belief and to say others believe different things would make each religion sound like believing in the tooth fairy. To explain what religion is without promoting one is far too complicated for a television special for toddlers to address. Not going into detail about beliefs specific to each religion is a trickier line to walk, and it is more respectful to each religion than any other way to approach the subject.