"The Draidle Game"

[Drtooth]

Again, Sesame Street can only teach so much. We can't rely on it to teach everything. Next week, we won't see an Elmo's World where Elmo teaches kids the "birds and the bees" or the more specific (and sometimes upsetting to real little kids) aspects of a certain religion. It can't be done.

Not even Shalom Sesame, even in the older episodes made for older kids, mentioned the complexities of the Jewish religion. They did mention some biblical stories, and the new one got a little specific about Purim in this skit... but they tend to shy away from the complex. That's for religious texts, parents and the church to teach when the kids are older and more open to the teachings. It's a nice start for the preschoolers to learn the simple things, leading on the the bigger things later.

Religion or otherwise, you can teach a small child only so much before it gets confusing... and Elmo's World is for 3 year olds, maybe the occasional 4 year old. Even if they were to teach Easter's real origin, I couldn't see them getting more complex than saying "He went away for a few days and came back." Kids need to learn the concept of death (though somehow they know what ghosts are at that age... dunno why) before they can understand why it was a miracle. Like how they say at the beginning of "Christmas Carol" that it must be known Marley was dead to begin with so that the rest of the story can seem fantastic and wonderful.

I agree... SS can teach where babies come from, but they can't teach HOW they're made. Sid the Science can only talk about so much science before it gets long winded and confusing, that's why he mentions chemical reactions, but not the formulaic expression of them.

 

[Convincing John]

Exactly. I just tossed in the birds and the bees as an example. There's other things Sesame Street just can't teach about. They tried with divorce & it didn't work. There was even talk once about dealing with drugs. It was Jon Stone's suggestion, I think.

As for ghosts, kids might understand about them because they are seen in cartoons and other kids' shows. A lot of kids (maybe even the really young ones) have also seen ghosts in the Harry Potter movies. True, the movies aren't really for young kids, but Harry's still really popular and there's a lot of death and ghosts in those films. Younger kids might see them if there's older siblings around. Just a thought.

Convincing John

 

[Drtooth]

Exactly. I just tossed in the birds and the bees as an example. There's other things Sesame Street just can't teach about. They tried with divorce & it didn't work. There was even talk once about dealing with drugs. It was Jon Stone's suggestion, I think.

The problem with Divorce is the WAY they handled it. They had the same concept in the show Arthur, BUT they got it right. How? It happened in the past and was referenced every so often. Buster's Dad and Mother split up before the show, they never really explained why, but they managed to come up with the message that it's okay anyway. They didn't need to deal with messy stuff like who's fault and how it happened. They solved it by saying THAT it happened. I still feel had they done things differently, it could have worked. Big Bird asks Snuffy why he doesn't see his father and only his mother, Snuffy says, "they're devorced. I see him on the weekeneds" or something like that.

Drugs are RIGHT OUT. That's definitely an older kid problem. The best I think SS could do is a "These are NOT candy" message, and that's really more of a poison control thing. You know, in case a little one sees mommy's pills on the table or floor.

As for ghosts, kids might understand about them because they are seen in cartoons and other kids' shows. A lot of kids (maybe even the really young ones) have also seen ghosts in the Harry Potter movies. True, the movies aren't really for young kids, but Harry's still really popular and there's a lot of death and ghosts in those films. Younger kids might see them if there's older siblings around. Just a thought.

I still don't understand how kids get Casper, but don't get death. Especially since they show a LOT of gravestones in those cartoons.

I remember my sister was talking to little kids for some college internship, and they were reading One Piece in the US Shonen Jump... these kids were a little young to be reading it, sure... but my sister had to explain that Ivankov was a man dressed up as a woman. And the conversation didn't go too much deeper than that.

 

[ISNorden]

I agree that Sesame Street was right to teach about the religious aspects of both Christmas and Hanukkah--up to a point. They are religious holidays, despite the wealth of secular traditions that have developed: not telling a curious 3-year-old that much is intellectually dishonest.

I myself, on the other hand, am neither Christian nor Jewish; if I had children, I'd teach them about all three of Elmo's "happy holidays" in terms of "This is what some people believe, do and celebrate." Whether Jesus was divine or not, or rose from the dead or not--that kind of teaching belongs on a dedicated religious TV show, not on one meant to teach a broad curriculum to children of all faiths. The same goes for the spiritual meaning of the Hanukkah story: that kind of discussion belongs in Hebrew school or at home, not on a TV show created to teach all children about many subjects.

 

[Convincing John]

Drugs are RIGHT OUT. That's definitely an older kid problem. The best I think SS could do is a "These are NOT candy" message, and that's really more of a poison control thing. You know, in case a little one sees mommy's pills on the table or floor.

I think that's what there was talk about. There was no script or anything, but a Sesame Street version of the old "We're Not Candy" PSA was what the eventual goal probably would have been. They actually did a "leave poison alone" sketch with Roosevelt Franklin. It was short, to the point and got the message across:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU_JAbq1KG8

You're right, the subject of divorce is handled well on Arthur. They mention it, the parents do their normal day-to-day stuff and Buster has his adventures with Arthur and the gang. If it was mentioned on Sesame Street (with maybe a little bit of explanation for the younger kids) it would have worked, I think.

If I remember right, kids were most upset about the "parents arguing scene" where Alice beats up her teddy bear.

As sad as it sounds, when parents get upset, kids can get upset too, even if they don't understand fully what's going on. The problem is, there's something about the situation Alice didn't understand and the test group of kids (probably) felt the same way. Had the parents explain to Alice (on kid terms) what was going on in a calmer manner, maybe the kids watching could get it, too.

Until they stopped showing Kermit's News Flashes on SS, they showed the closest thing they could show about divorce. It obviously worked because it ran for years. Maybe it worked because it was partially musical. Maybe Kermit and the bird were more tactful with the information. For anyone who hasn't seen it, check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpZ-DQC2-SU

In the Snuffy episode, maybe there was too much focus on the subject, as if they were trying to give the kids too much information at once. If there were little mentions here and there in other episodes, like this:

Big Bird: "Are you going to the park with me and Maria today, Snuff?"

Snuffy: "Oh, I can't today. I gotta pack my overnight bag. I'm going to Daddy's cave for the night."

Big Bird: "Oh yeah, that's right. Your daddy lives somewhere else."

Snuffy: "Yup, but we sure have a great time when we get together! He's gonna teach me how to play checkers and then we're going to the zoo! I'll tell you all about it when I get back. See you later, Bird!" (Bassoon music plays as Suffy shuffles offscreen).

I totally forgot about Casper. There are tombstones all over the place in those cartoons. Scooby Doo's got 'em, too. Depends on which episodes you watch, I guess.

Convincing John

 

[Drtooth]

You're right, the subject of divorce is handled well on Arthur. They mention it, the parents do their normal day-to-day stuff and Buster has his adventures with Arthur and the gang. If it was mentioned on Sesame Street (with maybe a little bit of explanation for the younger kids) it would have worked, I think.

If I remember right, kids were most upset about the "parents arguing scene" where Alice beats up her teddy bear.

As sad as it sounds, when parents get upset, kids can get upset too, even if they don't understand fully what's going on. The problem is, there's something about the situation Alice didn't understand and the test group of kids (probably) felt the same way. Had the parents explain to Alice (on kid terms) what was going on in a calmer manner, maybe the kids watching could get it, too.

There WAS a Fat Albert, though. It's for older kids, and I'm sure they'd understand better. I forget the title, but the parents were constantly fighting. To the extent the father starts making nasty remarks about the mother "spending all my money." of course, the kid runs away, and Fat Albert has to talk sense into her. Now, that's a might intense to teach to younger kids, but older kids get the message better when it's taught like that.

Though for Arthur, I kinda wish they'd explain it in flashback form. It makes sense why Buster's parents broke up if you catch the clues (it's the same reason Buster's Mom breaks up with Harry). Buster's father is a pilot, Buster's mom is a very busy newsroom worker (reporter or editor, I can't remember). They just drifted apart because they were too busy for each other.

 

[ISNorden]

I agree that Sesame Street should have handled divorce more gradually, possibly through a season-long story arc--the same way they treated the subjects of marriage, birth, and adoption. Couples don't usually decide to break up overnight, and their children usually learn about what's going on long before a divorce is final. (Covering Mr. Hooper's death as a single episode was different: because few people plan their deaths in advance or know when they're going to die, a child is likely to get information all at once.)

Even if CTW had used the story-arc treatment, I can understand why the writers chose the Snuffleupagus family instead of a human one: Susan and Gordon were happily married since Episode 1, and didn't have a child at all until Miles' adoption many years later. Maria and Luis' marriage would have been too recent to end (compared to the Snuffy episode). No other adults on the show (except Buffy, I think) had even mentioned their spouses yet; the only logical choice was Mr. Snuffleupagus, the one major "child Muppet" living with a single parent. (Snuffy always refers to his mommy around Big Bird, but never his daddy... )

 

[CensoredAlso]

There WAS a Fat Albert, though. It's for older kids, and I'm sure they'd understand better. I forget the title, but the parents were constantly fighting. To the extent the father starts making nasty remarks about the mother "spending all my money." of course, the kid runs away, and Fat Albert has to talk sense into her. Now, that's a might intense to teach to younger kids, but older kids get the message better when it's taught like that.

I have that episode! I don't know, I love Fat Albert but I wasn't completely satisfied with that episode's lesson. I agree that the girl needed to learn to accept her parents' divorce and move on, but it almost felt like they were telling her she was being selfish by being in denial and trying to have both parents at the same time. It was too much about correcting the child's behavior and not enough about criticizing the parents. At least that's my view.

 

[Convincing John]

There WAS a Fat Albert, though. It's for older kids, and I'm sure they'd understand better. I forget the title, but the parents were constantly fighting. To the extent the father starts making nasty remarks about the mother "spending all my money." of course, the kid runs away, and Fat Albert has to talk sense into her. Now, that's a might intense to teach to younger kids, but older kids get the message better when it's taught like that.

Though for Arthur, I kinda wish they'd explain it in flashback form. It makes sense why Buster's parents broke up if you catch the clues (it's the same reason Buster's Mom breaks up with Harry). Buster's father is a pilot, Buster's mom is a very busy newsroom worker (reporter or editor, I can't remember). They just drifted apart because they were too busy for each other.

They did a Fat Albert episode about that? No kidding? Huh, well, good for Bill Cosby to think of that. I guess it doesn't really surprise me, since so many Fat Albert episodes dealt with so many different social concepts. They did have an episode about saying no to drugs, another about someone spiking punch, teen pregnancy and even one about auto theft.

Yep, auto theft. I don't know if you saw that one, but it turned out that Fat Albert and his friends were just riding with some guy in a car that the guy actually stole. The cop scares everyone straight (even though Fat Albert and the gang didn't know about the car being stolen) by taking them to the jail. Just watch what happens and listen to what the inmates say!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrDzoLK_zqQ

And wouldn't you know...relating this to Sesame Street, they actually dealt with stealing a few times, plus the consequence of going to jail.

One episode dealt with some random monster daring Telly to steal a zucchini off of Mr. Macintosh's cart (I just remember seeing it in the 1980's, I can't find the clip of it). Telly freaks out after taking it, then gives it back, still freaking out about what will happen to him. Naturally, he's forgiven. Dunno what happened to the other monster, though.

Another was episode 3058. Telly imagines punching a penguin (they actually showed the punch on the show) and Telly imagines himself being arrested and tossed in the slammer. (scroll down for the pictures):

http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Episode_3058

And there was a clip of Cookie imagining himself stealing Prairie Dawn's cookie, then getting arrested. (Hey, you gotta admit, the Mr. Rogers mention is funny).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iirLDqHKiAk

Convincing John

 

[Drtooth]

Yep, auto theft. I don't know if you saw that one, but it turned out that Fat Albert and his friends were just riding with some guy in a car that the guy actually stole. The cop scares everyone straight (even though Fat Albert and the gang didn't know about the car being stolen) by taking them to the jail. Just watch what happens and listen to what the inmates say!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrDzoLK_zqQ

I remember reading the linear notes to the 4 disk "Greatest Hits" DVD (which that episode wasn't on) and there was an interview with Lou Schimer talking about that episode briefly. It was their every intention to say, if you're going to prison, you might get raped. They also had an episode (according to the interview) about VD's.

I have that episode! I don't know, I love Fat Albert but I wasn't completely satisfied with that episode's lesson. I agree that the girl needed to learn to accept her parents' divorce and move on, but it almost felt like they were telling her she was being selfish by being in denial and trying to have both parents at the same time. It was too much about correcting the child's behavior and not enough about criticizing the parents. At least that's my view

Yeah... that's probably the one. Is that the one with the Brown Hornet cartoon about the villain that stole paintings from an intergalactic museum? They actually dealt with divorce at least twice... the other being an earlier episode (I believe it was called "So Close and yet so Far")and they didn't go too much into detail as I recall. It definitely had a different slant on the issue, though.