The Bible and Love and Christians

[GonzoLeaper]

I think this is probably where we might differ on interpretation, as I would say that some of The Bible is metaphor and symbolism. I do think that we should treat The Bible as historical accounts in every part- except for where it's clearly indicated that it's meant to be an allegory or such.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I think this is probably where we might differ on interpretation, as I would say that some of The Bible is metaphor and symbolism. I do think that we should treat The Bible as historical accounts in every part- except for where it's clearly indicated that it's meant to be an allegory or such.

Well I wasn't questioning specific events, just saying that Jesus often used metaphor and symbolism to get important points across.

But it's OK, differences will happen.

 

[Drtooth]

I agree, I do think too much attention was put on people like Palin because they got people excited. Fine. But she can't realistically run for President. And now they're struggling to find good candidates!

Logically thinking, what would you rather do? Run for a low paying, high stress, job controlling the fates of millions, get constantly heckled for doing ANYTHING, and being so afraid to make choices that nothing happens and get heckeld for doing NOTHING....

OR

Whine and moan and complain for large amounts of money?

 

[CensoredAlso]

Whine and moan and complain for large amounts of money?

Well I do that anyway, so getting paid for it would be a nice change!

But yes, good point, like "President Bush" said on SNL: "I don't know why he wants this job!" Lol

 

[frogboy4]

Recent developments on this topic:

Representative Steve Simon (DFL Hopkins/St. Louis Park) says [here in this clip] a proposed Minnesota constitutional amendment is largely about religion. He says if sexual orientation is innate as science is showing us, and not a lifestyle choice, then God created gay people. He asks how many gay people must God create before we accept that he wants them around. Of course, no matter what one believes, we should all be afforded the right to pursue our own path without arbitrary restraints.

Also, Hockey star Sean Avery supports marriage equality [in this clip] showing extreme bravery amongst his pro-sports peers. And he's not even gay!

And lastly, in the next 72 hours, conservative lawmakers could move a bill that would make being LGBT in Uganda a crime punishable by death. Many prominent American Christian Conservatives have traveled over there in support of socially sanctioned bigotry. Surely there are enough Christians in this country who would disagree with such inhuman treatment, but again their voices fall largely silent when it counts. If anyone sees otherwise on the web, please post it here. Thanks!

 

[RedPiggy]

I deplore what is happening in places like that, but in all honesty, would our tongue-wagging really stop them? I mean, it's not like we have authority in other nations, particularly those who have a thing against us anyway (one starts to wonder, or maybe it's because I haven't slept a lot yet, if this is about gays or about a statement about the perceived spiritual ugliness of the US).

 

[frogboy4]

I deplore what is happening in places like that, but in all honesty, would our tongue-wagging really stop them? I mean, it's not like we have authority in other nations, particularly those who have a thing against us anyway (one starts to wonder, or maybe it's because I haven't slept a lot yet, if this is about gays or about a statement about the perceived spiritual ugliness of the US).

I agree that American Christians probably wouldn't accomplish much policy change by speaking out, but in the long run it would make a big difference in changing the global climate of tolerance. I think it would be great if Christians could help lead that charge.

On another note, there's a bill right now moving through the state legislature in Tennessee that would make it a crime for a teacher to say the word "gay." If this bill passes, a bullied gay kid wouldn't be able to go to a teacher or school administrator for help—as if things weren't already hard enough for gay kids in the Bible Belt. More info here. This has the potential to hurt real kids in a way that could lead to lifelong problems. Kids deserve understanding without dogma, politics or pressure thrown at them from any side! There's a time coming soon when this country will progress except for a few bigoted backwards places. I know some great people from Tennessee, both straight and gay, Christian and otherwise. I hope there are enough thoughtful people like them to keep this from happening.

 

[RedPiggy]

The problem, frankly, with that logic is that you assume that countries who act like we're the spawn of Satan will actually want to emulate our "enlightened" thought. I don't see that happening, but the exact opposite. Bigots are out in force PRECISELY because they feel they are losing the ideological war (not that I'm gonna mourn, you know). This is not to say we should let the bigots win, but understand that moving in the better direction will tick off all the people who don't want to play along. I'm not sure it's "loudness" that wins ideology, but "persistence". The squeaky wheel might get the grease, but it might also just signal the wheel is about to fall off entirely. It is said "only the mountains are forever" ... and most mountains just wait everyone else out.

Tennessee, where I'm from, is devolving (unless you consider this must have been a very old problem, considering, IIRC, this is where the Scopes Trial farce happened). It's only going to take one Christian group unable to sing popular Christmas carols and you'll see this "issue" quietly disappear. Banning a word has to be the stupidest thing ever to come out of someone's mouth. It's completely unenforceable and so far off the list of IMPORTANT crap that whoever thought it up should have to sit in the corner with a dunce cap.

 

[lotusoftheleaf]

On another note, there's a bill right now moving through the state legislature in Tennessee that would make it a crime for a teacher to say the word "gay."

That right there is just insane. If we have to make it illegal to say the word "gay" we should be making it illegal to throw the word around as if it were an insult. My brothers seem to have picked up that habit from school. I've been trying to teach them not to do that, though I still sometimes refer to things I think are dumb as "retarded" which is just as bad.

 

[frogboy4]

The problem, frankly, with that logic is that you assume that countries who act like we're the spawn of Satan will actually want to emulate our "enlightened" thought. I don't see that happening, but the exact opposite. Bigots are out in force PRECISELY because they feel they are losing the ideological war (not that I'm gonna mourn, you know). This is not to say we should let the bigots win, but understand that moving in the better direction will tick off all the people who don't want to play along. I'm not sure it's "loudness" that wins ideology, but "persistence". The squeaky wheel might get the grease, but it might also just signal the wheel is about to fall off entirely. It is said "only the mountains are forever" ... and most mountains just wait everyone else out.

Tennessee, where I'm from, is devolving (unless you consider this must have been a very old problem, considering, IIRC, this is where the Scopes Trial farce happened). It's only going to take one Christian group unable to sing popular Christmas carols and you'll see this "issue" quietly disappear. Banning a word has to be the stupidest thing ever to come out of someone's mouth. It's completely unenforceable and so far off the list of IMPORTANT crap that whoever thought it up should have to sit in the corner with a dunce cap.

Christians don't always take a stand because they think they'll win. They stand because it's the right thing to do. Well, not always when it comes to particular issues and that's what should change. I really wish there were an active group of Christians that would counteract the bigots among them in these cases. In my mind that would be a win-win situation. They'd gain more followers and it could only help minorities gain more personal freedoms here and abroad.

I still think it's vitally important for Christians in all countries to vocally oppose tyranny in all of its forms. The change won't necessarily happen with particular West-hating countries, but it can with those these particular countries depend upon and therefore their policies might change and more civil rights granted to their citizens due to that influence. That's how it happens with other issues, so why not gay rights too? I'm not talking gay marriage in Uganda. I'm saying that gay people should be allowed to not be viciously tortured to death under the law.

It is unfortunate that some places in America still practice bigotry. I'm still amazed at many of the Yahoo article responses! There's a lot of hate still in the world and we'll never get rid of it. But we can limit its affect on young people.

One of my friends posted his own "It Gets Better" video the other day. It was a different, more emotional plea. It's not good enough just to tell a young person at age 12 that life gets better 6 years from now when they're 18. That's half of their lifetime. What comfort is found in that? We need to build a nurturing support system around them to grow in the way life leads them without being bullied by ideology from any side. That things are better than they appear and where to look for support instead of providing blind placation.