The Bible and Love and Christians

[CensoredAlso]

I like the quotes about prayer from the movie- interesting. Yeah, I don't know if those are the best things to say to God- lol. But there is an honesty to them that reminds me some of the Psalms.

Lol, exactly that's what I like about it, it's very human and honest. It's not a person attempting to seem all pious and perfect; it's a person admitting their weaknesses. "Whoever exalts himself will be humbled. And whoever humbles himself shall be exalted." (Matthew 23:12)

Well the "pick the lock" line makes more sense when you see the whole film and what the character goes through. I just didn't want to give too much away, lol. I would definitely recommend the film, thanks for replying!

 

[frogboy4]

I sometimes think it exposes a personal prejudice when religious folk keep using the term "homosexuality" when addressing their concerns with the LGBT community because it's clear that they are preoccupied with the physical nature of a relationship. Marriage and partnerships have several pillars including emotional and spiritual too. It's an easy way to conger-up an uncomfortable image rather than address the fullness of a relationship. Also, spirituality doesn't have to mean Biblical religion. There are other religions and paths out there that people follow and of course each person believes that their path is the right one. I always find it odd when a person uses scripture to justify their reasons for standing in the way of my civil rights. They could just as easily quote from a Star Wars novel for all the legitimacy I give to either texts. How cool would it be if the Bible had ewoks?

And yet again I still get quite angry when people instantly go to talking about how we all "sin" when discussing gays - like the beautiful couple down the street sharing a life together and raising some wonderful kids somehow can be equated to liars, thieves, rapists and murderers...or even just committing a small simple act that hurts another person. Shading gays through language does hurt us and our families. It's seldom any other religion in this country actively allocates sin in such a way to the gay community as the Christians. Most of us don't believe your texts or point of view. In fact, many of us think that religion is a legitimized mental illness, but for us to continually state something as inflammatory as that and insinuate our beliefs on others when discussing them for what we think is a "greater good" that religious people should know is just as offensive as Christians calling gays sinners. We both know where one another stands on such issues. It's unlikely we'll change the others' minds (or at least not that way) so such rants are selfish and don't construct anything except that secular or Christian person's feeling of superiority.

I find it odd that there are still Christian people out there that think non-believers just haven't heard their message right so that it must be repeated ad nauseum. The fact is gays don't believe that our partnerships are sinful. To state it once or twice in order to share a belief is one thing. To continue to say it once that point of view has been shared is bullying - especially when it comes from the Christian community. They are the majority in this country while we gays only have about 10%. There is much more power behind every action due to the sheer number of Christians and that should require them to take extra care in how they deal with others who fall outside of their chosen teachings.

As far as marriage is concerned - we don't expect Christians to agree with our partnerships or perform the ceremonies. We just deserve the same rights, protections and opportunities as everyone else and that includes marriage. It amazes me how the fact of being gay gives anybody a license to dictate the terms of my life. If you are a Christian and don't believe in gay marriage, well you are someone who literally interprets the scripture as truth and that's perfectly fine. The bigotry only really occurs when others are made to live by your (or what you believe to be God's) rules.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I sometimes think it exposes a personal prejudice when religious folk keep using the term "homosexuality" when addressing their concerns with the LGBT community because it's clear that they are preoccupied with the physical nature of a relationship.

I do want to say, I think sometimes it's more that people are afraid saying "gay" will sound like a slang term or something. It's not about prejudice, it's about trying too hard to be polite. It's like how we go out of our way to say "Italian American, African American, Asian American" etc.

I can't speak for everyone of course, but I have learned in life that it is easy to misinterpret another person's motivations. We think we know what's going on in someone's heart, but most of the time we don't.

I disagree with people on a lot of issues, but I try to remember that I don't know where they're coming from in life. Doesn't mean we'll suddenly agree, but life's not always about that. Sometimes the person is more important than the issue.

 

[frogboy4]

I do want to say, I think sometimes it's more that people are afraid saying "gay" will sound like a slang term or something. It's not about prejudice, it's about trying too hard to be polite. It's like how we go out of our way to say "Italian American, African American, Asian American" etc.

I can't speak for everyone of course, but I have learned in life that it is easy to misinterpret another person's motivations. We think we know what's going on in someone's heart, but most of the time we don't.

I disagree with people on a lot of issues, but I try to remember that I don't know where they're coming from in life. Doesn't mean we'll suddenly agree, but life's not always about that. Sometimes the person is more important than the issue.

I can understand that you might feel weird using the term "gay" or "LGBT", but it's clear that the most vocally pious talking heads on television largely focus-in on the term "homosexuality" to insinuate our relationships are based on carnal pleasures in order to rob their legitimacy or fullness. Stating otherwise is either ignorant of the reality or intellectually dishonest. How weird would it feel if I always referred to you as "heterosexual" and used this as the first descriptor as well? Gay and LGBT are just fine to use. Take it from the flaming San Franciscan. In this melting pot of cultures I tend to use the terms Black, Asian (more specific if I know their specific heritage), Hispanic, gay, etc unless asked differently by the person being addressed because ultimately it's not about me...it's about what's most comfortable to them in order to truly connect.

Again, I think there's nothing more American than to disagree - but to limit another person's life because of our personal beliefs isn't. I'm tired of hearing many Christians say things like, "...well, I support laws excluding gays from marriage because it goes against what God wants..." or "...gays should just sign some legal documents for particular rights and call it something separate like a civil union..." or "...legitimizing gays' immorality will cause harm to the children..." sort of ignorant of the facts/hate speech. Someone's personal views should not shape my freedoms.

 

[CensoredAlso]

I can understand that you might feel weird using the term "gay" or "LGBT", but it's clear that the most vocally pious talking heads on television largely focus-in on the term "homosexuality" to insinuate our relationships are based on carnal pleasures and rob their legitimacy or fullness. Stating otherwise is either ignorant of the reality or intellectually dishonest.

I don't deny that that is some people's motivation. Just saying it's not always that simple. I'm neither ignorant nor dishonest (again, you can't assume someone's motivation ).

In this melting pot of cultures I tend to use the terms Black, Asian (more specific if I know their specific heritage), Hispanic, gay, etc unless asked differently by the person being addressed because ultimately it's not about me...it's about what's most comfortable to them in order to truly connect.

And that's the ideal we should strive for. But you can't always tell what makes people comfortable or uncomfortable and some people will get annoyed with you instead of politely correcting you. You can't please everybody.

 

[RedPiggy]

How weird would it feel if I always referred to you as "heterosexual" and used this as the first descriptor as well?

But ... I am?

"...gays should just sign some legal documents for particular rights and call it something separate like a civil union..."

In all honesty, I'd like to see "marriage" be a more intimate term anyway. Let "domestic partnership" or "civil union" be for the pencil-pushers in the government.

 

[CensoredAlso]

In all honesty, I'd like to see "marriage" be a more intimate term anyway. Let "domestic partnership" or "civil union" be for the pencil-pushers in the government.

See "marriage" never sounds like an intimate term to me. It sounds all grown up and boring, lol. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to get married, but yeah, if there was another word I could use I'd be happy.

You know even in this day and age, marriage for a woman often still means giving up a lot of your life. It's still very difficult to have a job and raise a child. And Women's liberation didn't really liberate the men, so the men still aren't financially in a position where they're able to stay home and help raise the children.

So yeah, there's plenty of marriage revision to go around!

 

[frogboy4]

But ... I am?

I get what you're saying, but is that the first descriptor of who you are, what your relationships are about or the activities you share? Probably not. To think "sex" before any other thing in a gay partnership is misleading. Anyone who bases their marriage or relationship on the physical nature first is likely going to have a hard time of things. Again, it is one of several pillars that support the whole.

I personally think it's weird that people use the term "institution" for marriage. Sure, it is, but the word institution congers up the image of an unfortunate place filled with schizophrenics and fear-biters. Marriage is an intimate and life-long bedrock that creates strength and security.

 

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Margaret Dumont: I think marriage is a very noble institution....It's the foundation of the American home!

Groucho: Yes, but the trouble is, you can't enforce it! It was put over on the American people while our boys were over there! And all our girls were over here...

(To Marx Brothers fans, yes I know Margaret Dumont didn't say that whole line, I'm just shortening for length. ; ) )

 

[GonzoLeaper]

How cool would it be if the Bible had ewoks?

As a Star Wars fan, I just had to point this out. The Canaanite city of Endor actually is mentioned in The Bible!
(As Star Wars fans know, Endor is the home planet of the Ewoks.)
It's mentioned in Joshua 17:11, Psalms 83:9-10 and 1 Samuel 28:4-25 at least.