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Steve Whitmire has left the Muppets, Matt Vogel to continue as Kermit

DarthGonzo

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Funny how, the Kermit moment of the past decade people were most moved by (Pictures in My Head) is the epitome of sad Whitmere Kermit.
 

ErinAardvark

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Everyone keeps blaming the writers for how Kermit has been for the past 20 some-odd years. But I can't be the only one who got aggravated at the way Whitmere performed Kermit on live appearances on talk shows and other engagements, right? That stupid "this is my frozen frog face" joke repeated ad nausium got on my nerves.

And Henson's Kermit's appeal is that deep down, he really was a bit of an ***hole. He treated Piggy badly on many occasions and really let her have it without backing down, he would slam Fozzie and Gonzo very subtlety in ways neither of them were savvy enough to understand, and there was always a tinge of "this is beneath me but whatever it's a gig" in his voice whenever he appeared on Sesame Street. Jim had a way of making Kermit so darn funny that didn't come from writers. It came from Jim and how in tune he was with his own creation.

I never felt that from Whitmere's Kermit, no matter what production he was in or which writers handled him. His Kermit was very different. He was a bit of a too-friendly wuss who was quick to get frustrated but also quick to back down in fear of upsetting anyone. That's part of both the writing and the performance. Whitmere's performance of Kermit telling Piggy off in MMW is so different from how Jim would do it, and it's not about how it was written, but it about how toothless his anger and exasperation would be. Whitmere's Kermit was a depressed wimp. Jim's Kermit knew he was the center of the universe, and a small part of him got off on it.

That stuff you can't credit or blame writers for. It's totally about how Whitmere and Henson interpreted the character.
You're probably not the only one who feels like this I'm sure, however I'm not one of them. I never really felt Kermit was, as you say, "a too-friendly wuss." It's all in the interpretation. I'm not saying you're wrong, though, I'm just saying I, personally, never saw Kermit as that, and I still think at least part of it has to do with the writing.
 

CensoredAlso

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He was a bit of a too-friendly wuss who was quick to get frustrated but also quick to back down in fear of upsetting anyone.
Who does that remind me of? Hmm....( :coy: ) Hold on, I'll get it! ( :coy: )

Jim's Kermit knew he was the center of the universe
Well yeah, because Jim Henson was the leader of his own group, and also a public figure, recognized and praised everywhere. He knew what that was like, he lived it. You're not going to get that same quality from an unknown performing the character.
 

Mo Frackle

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Food for thought, via the ToughPigs forum.

Carolyn (CWIESNER)
It's interesting how Jim's name continues to be used by everyone in this situation to justify... Whatever.
Joe Hennes
Yes. This.

I make a point to not say "Jim would have done..." or "What Jim wanted was..." in my writings, because I was never in his head, and he's not around to offer his opinion on things. I get that his family and his closest coworkers know better than the rest of us what Jim's intentions were on every matter, but they'd never really know for sure. And even still, he's been gone for almost three decades, so who knows what Jim would think of things by 2017. Personally, I find it just as insulting that anyone would claim to speak for him as I would if someone claimed to speak for me.

What matters most to me is the stuff we see the characters doing on screen. And right now, we have literally nothing to go on.
 

CensoredAlso

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Even the Two-Headed Monster's heads had differing opinions.
Exactly! You know, cooperation is very important, but it never meant "we must all agree." It meant retaining your various viewpoints and finding a way to make them all work together. :smile:
 
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CensoredAlso

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Food for thought, via the ToughPigs forum.

Carolyn (CWIESNER)

It's interesting how Jim's name continues to be used by everyone in this situation to justify... Whatever.


Joe Hennes

Yes. This.

I make a point to not say "Jim would have done..." or "What Jim wanted was..." in my writings, because I was never in his head, and he's not around to offer his opinion on things. I get that his family and his closest coworkers know better than the rest of us what Jim's intentions were on every matter, but they'd never really know for sure. And even still, he's been gone for almost three decades, so who knows what Jim would think of things by 2017. Personally, I find it just as insulting that anyone would claim to speak for him as I would if someone claimed to speak for me.

What matters most to me is the stuff we see the characters doing on screen. And right now, we have literally nothing to go on.
Jim was even used to justify that juvenile "Trump supporters can't be Muppet fans" article. :wink:
 
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