• Welcome to the Muppet Central Forum!
    You are viewing our forum as a guest. Join our free community to post topics and start private conversations. Please contact us if you need help.
  • "Muppets Now" premieres on Disney+
    The Muppets fifth series of all time debuted on Disney+. Make plans to watch one of the most anticipated shows of the year. New episodes premiere every Friday through September 4.
  • 50 Years and Counting
    Read our review and discuss with fans the highly anticipated Sesame Street "50 Years and Counting" DVD set from Shout Factory featuring over five hours of beloved moments.
  • 50 Years and Still Sunny!
    Read fan reactions and let us know your thoughts on the all-new Sesame Street documentary "50 Years and Still Sunny!" hosted by Gloria Estefan.
  • The Dark Crystal: "Age of Resistance"
    After a 36 year wait, return to the great conjunction. The Dark Crystal "Age of Resistance" is a mesmerizing and beautiful prequel series now on Netflix. Renew your essence today.
  • Music is Everywhere
    Muppet Central Radio is now on TorontoCast, TuneIn, Apple, Amazon and Google. Listen to Muppet music 24/7 wherever you go with TuneIn and Apple apps and devices.

Steve Whitmire has left the Muppets, Matt Vogel to continue as Kermit

KrazyJoe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
52
Reaction score
43
I can't be the only one to feel like a lot of Muppet groups and sites are working overtime to post fluff pieces on how great the Muppet franchise is, right? It almost feels like a collective push to get everyone to forget what's happened and move on.
I haven't seen these fluff pieces.
 

CBPuppets

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
1,693
Reaction score
361
You know who else is throwing collaborators under the bus and creating schisms? Steve.

Everything you are saying assumes that what Steve is saying is the whole, unfiltered gospel truth. It clearly isn't. Disney and the Henson's have stopped responding. They put out their statements in response to Steve's statement and then things went back and forth. Disney stopped, Steve is still rolling. So we are only getting one perspective on this. He's talking in circles at this point, and quite frankly, each post just illustrates the other side as well. Even when I agree with him, perhaps the way he words things in text and his steadfast belief that he is seemingly the only guy who can save the Muppets. He's even enticed us fans by saying he's got the definitive project that can save the brand. That is manipulation. Only one performer has managed to get himself fired from the Muppets. From Kermit the Frog no less. That doesn't just happen. That he lost Ernie too should speak volumes that we aren't getting a full picture. After all this, how could they even take him back and have it go smoothly? He's done a lot of damage in his own words.

Since he's started with his blog and statements he's slowly but surely started gone from targeting groups broadly and circled to specifics. Disney. Disney executives. Debbie McClellan. Pre vs Post Jim performers. Remaining performers. Matt specifically. The fan communities. Toughpigs. He hasn't had universal praise and support here either, so it's only a matter of time before MC is brought up as a new evil. I feel bad for the guy, but enough is enough.

Steve can complain about Rizzo and Bean all he wants, but would anybody even know if he wasn't performing Lips or Foo Foo? Kermit isn't him. Period. Nor is the Newsman, Link, Ernie. They were Jim's. The Irony is that Steve is the alpha recast. He was the first example of why understudies are important. He's the first example of a character being diminished by the sudden loss of their creator. If Jim hadn't died, he would have been making the decision to recast Richard's character. He would have done it because he wanted the characters to live beyond their performers. That Steve doesn't see that is asinine. So many characters, gone for years, because they never imagined what to do when one of them died or left. Now they do. Sesame Street certainly gets it. You keep moving. That is what is best for the characters. Steve isn't talking about what is best for the Muppets anymore, he's talking about what is best for Steve. Kermit will be fine. They Muppets will be fine. They are bigger than one guy.
I never really thought about it like that
 

MrBloogarFoobly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2010
Messages
586
Reaction score
531
I haven't seen the fluff pieces, either, but I do think Muppet fandom tends to be blindly idealistic, to a point where we cannot usually have real discussions on things that matter.
 

D'Snowth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2003
Messages
37,853
Reaction score
11,387
I haven't seen the fluff pieces, either, but I do think Muppet fandom tends to be blindly idealistic, to a point where we cannot usually have real discussions on things that matter.
This has been a problem for about a decade or so: anytime somebody tries to have such "real discussions," the rest of the forum comes down on your for polluting whatever thread the discussion is in with "pessimism" and "negativity." This happened all the time prior to the 2011 movie came out: I kept expressing doubts about it, and I was steadfast and firm in my stance that I would believe the movie when I see that it actually does come out - and this was based on how many Muppet projects Disney had shelved up till that point . . . everybody else always expected these projects would actually happen each and everytime.
 

Daffyfan4ever

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Messages
4,752
Reaction score
519
I understand that. I remember watching Mr. Willobee's Christmas Tree with my family the year it was on and my sister was complaining all through the special about how :smile: didn't sound right. (Which is weird because that one came a few years after MCC.)

This has been a problem for about a decade or so: anytime somebody tries to have such "real discussions," the rest of the forum comes down on your for polluting whatever thread the discussion is in with "pessimism" and "negativity."
I'm sorry. I was just stating that I knew some actors who are super-nice on camera, but when you hear about things they do in person, you're kind of in for an unpleasant surprise. But I didn't mean to come off as sounding negative and I'm sorry if I upset or offended anyone with anything I said. I was just stating my opinion there.
 
Last edited:

D'Snowth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2003
Messages
37,853
Reaction score
11,387
The only performer who's spoken out so far has been Rick Lyon, who has basically said Steve is getting a taste of his own medicine.
 

Oscarfan

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 2, 2008
Messages
7,320
Reaction score
3,641
You know who else is throwing collaborators under the bus and creating schisms? Steve.

Everything you are saying assumes that what Steve is saying is the whole, unfiltered gospel truth. It clearly isn't. Disney and the Henson's have stopped responding. They put out their statements in response to Steve's statement and then things went back and forth. Disney stopped, Steve is still rolling. So we are only getting one perspective on this. He's talking in circles at this point, and quite frankly, each post just illustrates the other side as well. Even when I agree with him, perhaps the way he words things in text and his steadfast belief that he is seemingly the only guy who can save the Muppets. He's even enticed us fans by saying he's got the definitive project that can save the brand. That is manipulation. Only one performer has managed to get himself fired from the Muppets. From Kermit the Frog no less. That doesn't just happen. That he lost Ernie too should speak volumes that we aren't getting a full picture. After all this, how could they even take him back and have it go smoothly? He's done a lot of damage in his own words.

Since he's started with his blog and statements he's slowly but surely started gone from targeting groups broadly and circled to specifics. Disney. Disney executives. Debbie McClellan. Pre vs Post Jim performers. Remaining performers. Matt specifically. The fan communities. Toughpigs. He hasn't had universal praise and support here either, so it's only a matter of time before MC is brought up as a new evil. I feel bad for the guy, but enough is enough.

Steve can complain about Rizzo and Bean all he wants, but would anybody even know if he wasn't performing Lips or Foo Foo? Kermit isn't him. Period. Nor is the Newsman, Link, Ernie. They were Jim's. The Irony is that Steve is the alpha recast. He was the first example of why understudies are important. He's the first example of a character being diminished by the sudden loss of their creator. If Jim hadn't died, he would have been making the decision to recast Richard's character. He would have done it because he wanted the characters to live beyond their performers. That Steve doesn't see that is asinine. So many characters, gone for years, because they never imagined what to do when one of them died or left. Now they do. Sesame Street certainly gets it. You keep moving. That is what is best for the characters. Steve isn't talking about what is best for the Muppets anymore, he's talking about what is best for Steve. Kermit will be fine. They Muppets will be fine. They are bigger than one guy.
*clapping emoji*

The only performer who's spoken out so far has been Rick Lyon, who has basically said Steve is getting a taste of his own medicine.
I can kind of sympathize with him sometimes. He was a performer on Sesame Street for awhile and had very few speaking parts, while newcomers like Joey were thrown into the regular rotation almost immediately.

But, then again, he also got let go for unknown reasons, so he's not exactly on a higher horse.
 
Top