Steve and Jim

[Hat Sharpener]

Strange thought occurred to me last night.

There are some people watching the Muppets today who will look back in later years and say they prefer Steve's Kermit to Jim's... Like people who prefer Roger Moore to Sean Connery, only worse...

Not meaning to insult to Mr. Whitmire - he's a great muppeteer, but we ARE talking Jim Henson here...

Anyhow, that's today's random thought.

- Derek

 

[lowercasegods]

Man, I certainly hope that doesn't happen. I think Jim's stuff will always have more of a "legacy" behind it, so there's probably not too good a chance that Steve will overshadow him (though Steve does rule). After all, Jim sang "Rainbow Connection." Steve sang that one song from A Very Merry Muppet Christmas. Not much of a contest, really.

 

[Jivepuppet]

Comparing Henson and Whitmire to Connery and Moore is insulting to Steve Whitmire's talent.

No he's not Jim Henson, but he is Kermit the Frog, and a very, very good one at that.

He has the personality down, and tweaked it a bit over the years, as any artist should when taking over something, and he is one of the best puppeteers, possibly, ever.


Just my opinion.

 

[Frogster]

He has the personality down, and tweaked it a bit over the years, as any artist should when taking over something, and he is one of the best puppeteers, possibly, ever.


Just my opinion.

I know it's just your opinion, but I don't agree that he has Kermit's personality down. Kermit was more assertive, independant, and more adult-like back then, and I think Steve's Kermit is more for kids. To be honest, when it comes to maturity, sometimes Gonzo seems more controlled and preserved, although Gonzo still has his moments.

I do like Steve, and as hard as it's been, I've finally come to accept him as playing Kermit. I may have given him a hard time in the past, but he had some BIG shoes to fill. He may not be the same Kermit we knew pre-1990, but he's doing what he can. I'm not saying I like him as much as the old Kermit, but I'm happy all the same to see him when he appears on TV.

I do believe that everyone will agree with me here when I say that, as I've previously mentioned, that Kermit isn't what he used to be, though. Some say that the reason Kermit's attitude changed is because of the generation we're in. Did they change the attitude of Bugs Bunny or Mickey Mouse? No. Which is why I don't see why they changed Kermit's (or any of the Muppets who have changed, for that matter). I miss the old Kermit like anyone else, but Steve's not Kermit.

I guess I'm kind of going from one side to the other on this issue... Maybe I'm still trying to figure out how to view the Muppets nowadays. Maybe I shouldn't be trying to figure them out... maybe I should just sit back and enjoy them and quit analyzing them. I guess, to me, analyzing the Muppets is like analyzing jazz. By that I mean you shouldn't analyze jazz. Just enjoy it for what it is.

 

[Erine81981]

I will always love Jim and Steve all the same way I've always loved the Muppets.

 

[christyb]

My Opinion

While I love the orginal/Jim Henson's Kermit. I would have to say that I am partial to Steve's. He's the Kermit I grew up with and came to know and love. Can't help it that's just my preference. As far as talent, skill, etc. Jim Henson was by far one of the best. Then again Steve Whitmire is awesome. So I really can't draw a definate line and say 'This is the one I like best'.

 

[Hat Sharpener]

Comparing Henson and Whitmire to Connery and Moore is insulting to Steve Whitmire's talent.

As I said, Steve is awesome. Just in my mind Jim is "the" Kermit, and others may someday see Steve as "the" Kermit.

On a related note, I'm really hoping that Disney maintains the puppeteer-puppet relationship. The muppeteer brings so much personality to the character, and if you had rotating performers, you'd risk the character becoming a parody of themselves, or worse - totally devoid of personality (like Mickey Mouse who is more of a corporate symbol than a character).

Much of the discussion around here is about whether a new performer got the voice right, but I think more importantly is whether the new performer got the character right. I think Steve has (recently) given Kermit a great personality (the best part of the latest Christmas Movie IMHO) and I hope that he will continue to do so.

- Derek

P.S. I hold no strong opinions about James Bond actors, so maybe I should lay off the comparisson...

 

[Vic Romano]

I can't imagine anyone thinking Steve's Kermit is better then Jim's. I echo Luke's post (as I often do) that, while I love Steve and think he's a superb performer, I just don't think the Kermit we know fits Steve's personality. Steve's the fun loving, quick witted, happy-go-lucky prankster who is impossible not to adore. Jim's the soft spoken and shy leader who shows tremendous compassion. These traits from both performers tend to bleed into their respective Kermits. So I guess the Kermit you grow up with really might be dependant on the Kermit you prefer.

Man I'm deep.

BTW - Happy Birthday Hat Sharpener!

 

[Ruahnna]

Seeing what's behind

Hey there, Vic--don't drown, 'kay?

Actually, while I really love and appreciate Steve's Kermit, (which I think only continues to improve and deepen), Jim was truly one of a kind. His Kermit was more emotionally tuned to the characters around him. With Jim at the, um, helm, Kermit was--like Jim--the "papa" figure of the whole group. He encouraged Fozzie, made a few googly eyes at Piggy and allowed Gonzo the creative freedom to just do whatever it was Gonzo did. You can see this very clearly in the first three movies.

I really became a Steve WHitmire fan when I saw IAVMMC, because the Kermit I saw there is much, much more like the Kermit that I knew from the early years. Maybe it's because the show was more emotionally driven than action driven. Maybe it's because of his tender interactions with Fozzie and Piggy (who were also more like their old selves in this movie). (Maybe it's because of the kiss? Aw, sure, but that's not all of it.)
In the movies between the first three and IAVMMC, the characters were just that--characters in a movie. We didn't have any of those lovely breaking the fourth wall moments where we got to see our favorite felt folk. (I have to say that Piggy does come close in AMCC when she says "And I am going to raise you right off the pavement!) This inclusion of the audience was ALWAYS a part of TMS, and made appearences in the movies of that time period as well--witness the fight between Kermit and Piggy in TGMC. In that way, we get to know the muppet "actors' as real people--we get to know what Kermit is really like--not just what he's like on stage. Imagine what a different picture we'd have of Piggy if we ONLY ever saw her ON the stage instead of behind it as well! I think the muppets do best when they stick to the old format of letting us know the characters as people as well as performers. JMHTBHO (just my never to be humble opinion)

 

[Ilikemuppets]

Will, Mickey Mouse use to have more of a presonailty, but now, he's just a pitch man.

Jim is Kermit, he created Kermit, and will always be Kermit. But I'm used to Steves Kermit, thought, and I'm used to him being Kermit now, too.

I havt to say, that I grew up with Jim, being Kermit. While Steve is a superb puppetear, I would have to credit that fact to jim, henson. Steve would not be as good as he is, had Jim not taught him. I think it took steve a good number of years to get the character of Kermit down.