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Pixar: Are the glory days over?

Drtooth

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And yeah even as a kid I thought it was odd that Pocahontas didn't have a goofy, talking sidekick.
It fits in with the whole "We want this to be a serious film" tone. We have weak comic relief of the Racoon, humming bird, and pug dog. That was it. There was literally nothing for those Disney movie fans that live for Genie, Timon and Pumbaa, Iago, Sebastian the crab, or Cogsworth. I hate to be the guy that watches these films for the kid appeal, celebrity voiced sidekicks, but I am.
 

beatnikchick300

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Oh yeah Beauty & the Beast is ten times better than Pocahontas which was just a PC bore fest, hehe.
I actually hate Pocahontas too, not because it's "PC" (an extremely overused term, in my honest opinion), but because, how can I put this...? Well, I understand the hate that the animated Titanic movies (can't believe more than one of these exist) get for blatantly sugar-coating not-so-pretty aspects of history. I don't understand why Pocahontas gets a pass from most people, even though in my opinion, it's worse than the Titanic movies in that regard. It's ironic, because many people say that the thing they hate the most about Pocahontas is the villain, and he's actually one of the only aspects of that movie I DON'T hate.

But, yeah, I agree that Beauty and the Beast is much better. Yeah, the characters aren't perfect, but, come on, perfect, saintly characters are BORING (the "Mary Sue" isn't one of the most hated literary/media tropes for nothing).
 

Drtooth

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I actually hate Pocahontas too, not because it's "PC" (an extremely overused term, in my honest opinion), but because, how can I put this...? Well, I understand the hate that the animated Titanic movies (can't believe more than one of these exist) get for blatantly sugar-coating not-so-pretty aspects of history. I don't understand why Pocahontas gets a pass from most people, even though in my opinion, it's worse than the Titanic movies in that regard. It's ironic, because many people say that the thing they hate the most about Pocahontas is the villain, and he's actually one of the only aspects of that movie I DON'T hate.
That eloquently puts the other reason I hate it. It's revisionist history, and not even fun revisionist history, like Inglorious Basterds or Django Unchained. Come to think of it, they should have had Quentin Tarantino direct the movie.

The film is overwrought Narm. If they were trying to spread the message that everyone's the same and we don't need to fight over land, they did it in the most annoyingly Captain Planet-esque way possible.

I mean, really... I like Home on the Range a hundred thousand times more that that film... and Home on the Range was mind alteringly weird. Not Great Gonzo fun weird. Crazy old guy on the train talking to himself about dangerous stuff weird. The scary, don't go near it weird.
 

beatnikchick300

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That eloquently puts the other reason I hate it. It's revisionist history, and not even fun revisionist history, like Inglorious Basterds or Django Unchained. Come to think of it, they should have had Quentin Tarantino direct the movie.

The film is overwrought Narm. If they were trying to spread the message that everyone's the same and we don't need to fight over land, they did it in the most annoyingly Captain Planet-esque way possible.
That's another thing. As a self-proclaimed vegan eco-feminist, I'm all for environmental messages in kids' media (in fact, the song "Colors of the Wind" is another thing about that movie I like, but that and the villain are about it), but revising history to the point of sugar-coating it to do it isn't effective.

Although it might have been more...interesting had Quentin Tarantino directed it. :wink:
 

D'Snowth

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Hey beatnikchick, I just thought I'd let you know, I don't know if you're aware of this or not... but we get the point that you're a vegan. :wink:
 

Drtooth

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That's another thing. As a self-proclaimed vegan eco-feminist, I'm all for environmental messages in kids' media (in fact, the song "Colors of the Wind" is another thing about that movie I like, but that and the villain are about it), but revising history to the point of sugar-coating it to do it isn't effective.
Like I said before, it originally was going to be a wacky adventure more in line with Disney's other animated movies at the time. Something that had something for the whole family.

The songs are okay, if completely Narmy, but other than that, they made a lame preachy clean black and white version of history that has no likable characters in it.

Again, this was suggested by the mind behind SharkTale. :rolleyes:
 

CensoredAlso

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I actually hate Pocahontas too, not because it's "PC" (an extremely overused term, in my honest opinion), but because, how can I put this...? Well, I understand the hate that the animated Titanic movies (can't believe more than one of these exist) get for blatantly sugar-coating not-so-pretty aspects of history. I don't understand why Pocahontas gets a pass from most people, even though in my opinion, it's worse than the Titanic movies in that regard. It's ironic, because many people say that the thing they hate the most about Pocahontas is the villain, and he's actually one of the only aspects of that movie I DON'T hate.
Well when I said PC I mean how cardboard the characters are. The Europeans are bad and kill the planet, the Native Americans are good and love the planet. I'm sorry but the Native Americans cut down trees too, heh. They ate meat the same as Europeans (yes they respected the animal more, but many vegans would still say it's cruel). Why can't we just say there are both good and bad people in both groups? That seemed to be a little too deep for Disney, lol.

It's like Nostalgia Critic said, "I don't like how we're always having to say what a bunch of ******** we are." We can care about the planet without having to constantly apologize for being here.
 

Drtooth

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Well when I said PC I mean how cardboard the characters are. The Europeans are bad and kill the planet, the Native Americans are good and love the planet. I'm sorry but the Native Americans cut down trees too, heh. They ate meat the same as Europeans (yes they respected the animal more, but many vegans would still say it's cruel). Why can't we just say there are both good and bad people in both groups? That seemed to be a little too deep for Disney, lol.
The whole thing about European settlers carving out raw wilderness was a myth anyway. The original inhabitants did that. Only thing is, the people were easy to take land from because certain explorers brought diseases that basically killed a whole bunch of them. The settlers just came in and took some of the stuff that was already there.

Now, I can't sugar coat history. The Americans did some pretty awful stuff to the natives. There are things that still screw them to this day. None of that was in that movie. They seemed to confuse American explorers with Conquistadors, the ones that were looking for El Dorado. Heck, the Animaniacs parody Pocadottas was at least more historically accurate (there was only a John Smith, no big fat guy in a flamboyant outfit).

All and all, Captain Planet. It wants to say something, but is so incredibly narmful and melodramatic of how it says it, it actually works against its cause. Heck, Captain Planet's a show Conservatives watch to stereotype environmentalism and laugh at it. I can't blame them. Toxic Crusaders was a better show anyway.
 

CensoredAlso

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Heck, the Animaniacs parody Pocadottas was at least more historically accurate
"Just the same old heroine!" Lol

They seemed to confuse American explorers with Conquistadors, the ones that were looking for El Dorado.
I mean that's typical of Disney to do a mix match with history. Usually I don't mind because it's just a movie but with Pocahontas I remember they kept insisting they were trying to be accurate, and it just wasn't true.

All and all, Captain Planet. It wants to say something, but is so incredibly narmful and melodramatic of how it says it, it actually works against its cause. Heck, Captain Planet's a show Conservatives watch to stereotype environmentalism and laugh at it. I can't blame them. Toxic Crusaders was a better show anyway.
I admit, I watched Captain Planet all the time, I even owned a VHS. That doesn't mean I always enjoyed it, lol. The kids could be so self righteous and preachy that half the time you were hoping the planet would be ruined just to spite them! Lol.

Yeah Toxic Crusaders was a funny show, I should have watched that more, lol. The Planeteers were also good when they were allowed to be funny instead of all goody goody.
 
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