Our New Puppet Web Series! Starship Sassafrass!

[Buck-Beaver]

I think space may be your biggest problem then. That's where I would start.

Your green screen looks unevenly lit. Honestly, it's tough to evenly light a green screen with the equipment you're using. Fluorescent tube lights work best for green screen. The Pro ones are called Kino-Flos and cost $700+ per fixture, but to save money you can either rent them or take the same bulbs and put them in a $100 shop light from Home Depot and rig them to use on lighting stands (I think there are YouTube tutorials on how to do this - search for "low budget Kino Flo" or "Homemade Kino Flo").

Tom Antos has a great Youtube channel with amazing tutorials for DSLR filmmaking. This one deals with how to light green screen properly on a budget:

(the puppets you can see briefly in the opening were designed by me, Tom was the DOP on a project I directed a few years ago).

Also, the real problem with 60D footage isn't the sensor, it's how compressed it is. This gets a bit technical, but the free Magic Lantern add-on for your 60D enables you to shoot RAW video. RAW is vastly superior to .mov (the format the 60D usually records video in), much like the way a RAW still image is much, much better than a compressed JPEG. The 60D does not technically shoot RAW in full HD (I think the max resolution is something like 1730x1150), but lower resolution RAW video is much, much better than a .mov shot in Full HD. Search the forums at Magiclantern.fm for more information about this.

I really believe the FS-100 would be a bad investment. For one thing, it's several years old and a 2k camera which is going to be obsolete in a few years (everything is going 4k). For that kind of money you're much better off buying a full frame Black Magic Cinema Camera. Heck, Panasonic is even putting out a $900 DSLR called the Lumix DMC-FZ1000 that shoots in 4k (I would sit out the 4k DSLR market for awhile myself...there are bound to better/cheaper cameras available within a year).

I think a lot of people get lured in by expensive cameras they don't need. Most people don't realize that the Canon T3i ($500) shoots exactly the same video as the 60D ($700) and the 7D ($1000). The main difference is the quality of the camera's build; the T3i is plastic and feels like a toy, the 7D is built like a tank and weather sealed. There are some added features on more expensive DSLRs than benefit still photographers (like better autofocus), but there are not many advantages for filmmaking. I love shooting with a 7D, but the quality of the footage is not noticeably better than anything I've done with a T3i.

It's much better to invest in lighting and lenses imho. A great lens is usually much better than a more expensive camera body.

 

[crazy chris]

lol...your buddy needs a tutorial on sound recording...lolol

Thanks again for the tips

cc

 

[crazy chris]

I think space may be your biggest problem then. That's where I would start.

Your green screen looks unevenly lit. Honestly, it's tough to evenly light a green screen with the equipment you're using. Fluorescent tube lights work best for green screen. The Pro ones are called Kino-Flos and cost $700+ per fixture, but to save money you can either rent them or take the same bulbs and put them in a $100 shop light from Home Depot and rig them to use on lighting stands (I think there are YouTube tutorials on how to do this - search for "low budget Kino Flo" or "Homemade Kino Flo").

Tom Antos has a great Youtube channel with amazing tutorials for DSLR filmmaking. This one deals with how to light green screen properly on a budget:

(the puppets you can see briefly in the opening were designed by me, Tom shot a project I directed a few years ago).

Also, the real problem with 60D footage isn't the sensor, it's how compressed it is. This gets a bit technical, but the free Magic Lantern add-on for your 60D enables you to shoot RAW video. RAW is vastly superior to .mov (the format the 60D usually records video in), much like the way a RAW still image is much, much better than a compressed JPEG. The 60D does not technically shoot RAW in full HD (I think the max resolution is something like 1730x1150), but lower resolution RAW video is much, much better than a .mov shot in Full HD. Search the forums at Magiclantern.fm for more information about this.

I really believe the FS-100 would be a bad investment. For one thing, it's several years old and a 2k camera which is going to be obsolete in a few years (everything is going 4k). For that kind of money you're much better off buying a full frame Black Magic Cinema Camera. Heck, Panasonic is even putting out a $900 DSLR called the Lumix DMC-FZ1000 that shoots in 4k (I would sit out the 4k DSLR market for awhile myself...there are bound to better/cheaper cameras available within a year).

I think a lot of people get lured in by expensive cameras they don't need. Most people don't realize that the Canon T3i ($500) shoots exactly the same video as the 60D ($700) and the 7D ($1000). The main difference is the quality of the camera's build; the T3i is plastic and feels like a toy, the 7D is built like a tank and weather sealed. There are some added features on more expensive DSLRs than benefit still photographers (like better autofocus), but there are not many advantages for filmmaking. I love shooting with a 7D, but the quality of the footage is not noticeably better than anything I've done with a T3i.

It's much better to invest in lighting and lenses imho. A great lens is usually much better than a more expensive camera body.

I keep hearing alot of talk about the 4k... but i am curious if it even matters when our main outlet for displaying it is youtube. I figured their compression would ruin it?

My 60d which is brand new heated up on us and had to be shut down for a couple hours....so thats my driving force to move away from the whole dslr thing... ive studied cameras for the past 2 months and although its older... i just really liked what i saw from the fs100... i like the blackmagic... but it looks like half our time would be spent color correcting ....sigh...

At the end of the day...we are just novice puppeteers trying to have a little fun...hopefully we can slowly learn the tricks and get the proper equipment... for the time being im super proud of what weve accomplished and put together without a kickstarter campaign or a rich uncle...lol

cc

 

[crazy chris]

ps- im not sure our editing computers can handle RAW as of yet... i may need to invest in a beast computer at some point i guess

cc

 

[crazy chris]

pps- We shot on a 35mm rokinon cine lens ... although not a super expensive lens... its super fast and wonderful for our needs!

cc

 

[Buck-Beaver]

I've heard about DSLRs overheating, but I've never actually seen it happen despite several hundred hours of filming with them in the past few years. I guess I've been lucky!

I've heard good things about Rokinon's 35mm cine lens, but I've never used any of theirs before.

I think the FS100 is a bad way to go, simply because of cost. Honestly, for web video, if you don't want a DSLR the Canon VIXIA HF G20 is a great choice for $900. It's a technically a consumer camera, but it has manual controls and the quality is almost par with what you get from a lot of pro cameras.

Lighting really is much, much more important than the camera you choose. I've seen $300 camcorders and even camera phones record stunning footage for the web on a professionally lit set. I think a lot of the quality you pay for with a FS100 or even a Black Magic camera is lost on YouTube.

As a friend of mine likes to say, the pursuit of great often gets in the way of making something good.

If you are compositing elements together, bigger is almost always better because you have more image and detail to work with. Back in the early days of web video, I used to shoot green screen footage on Mini-DV at 720x480 and then output at 320x240 ...all the web could handle back then!). The compositing looked pretty good (even though I wasn't very good at it) because it was displayed at only half the resolution it was originally shot at. A lot of FX-heavy Hollywood films are now shot in 6k and then mastered at 4k for the same reason.

YouTube has actually supported 4k video for a few years. If you upload a 4k video it will be served to most people at 720p or 1080p, but the 4k video is still there for people who can watch it. It's a good way to future proof, but not really necessary at this point.

I'm not terribly familiar with the workflow for RAW video, but you can capture footage in RAW and then edit in a different format (your footage will still look better). It's also possible to edit with proxies and then just use the RAW video to render your final video.

 

[crazy chris]

I've heard about DSLRs overheating, but I've never actually seen it happen despite several hundred hours of filming with them in the past few years. I guess I've been lucky!

I've heard good things about Rokinon's 35mm cine lens, but I've never used any of theirs before.

I think the FS100 is a bad way to go, simply because of cost. Honestly, for web video, if you don't want a DSLR the Canon VIXIA HF G20 is a great choice for $900. It's a technically a consumer camera, but it has manual controls and the quality is almost par with what you get from a lot of pro cameras.

Lighting really is much, much more important than the camera you choose. I've seen $300 camcorders and even camera phones record stunning footage for the web on a professionally lit set. I think a lot of the quality you pay for with a FS100 or even a Black Magic camera is lost on YouTube.

As a friend of mine likes to say, the pursuit of great often gets in the way of making something good.

If you are compositing elements together, bigger is almost always better because you have more image and detail to work with. Back in the early days of web video, I used to shoot green screen footage on Mini-DV at 720x480 and then output at 320x240 (all the web could handle back then!). The compositing looked pretty - good even though I wasn't very good at it - because it was displayed at only half the resolution it was originally shot at. A lot of FX-heavy Hollywood films are now shot in 6k and then mastered at 4k for the same reason.

YouTube has actually supported 4k video for a few years. If you upload a 4k video it will be served to most people at 720p or 1080p, but the 4k video is still there for people who can watch it. It's a good way to future proof, but not really necessary at this point.

I definitely agree about the lighting... I am actually planning to install permanent lighting via a ceiling rig in each of our 3 studio rooms... but i really really want to stick with the LED units... i am going to mount 3 of them permanently on the green screen... along with a hair light... and use a set of promasters with soft boxes for fill....

Does the blackmagic record in 4k? the specs i see say 2.5k? or is that a different model?

I really want something with a solid "auto focus" feature for my pan shots (because we are puppeting over head everything is mounted 7 feet in the air on a jib and pulling focus manually for moving shots has proven a challenge.... once we get to a still position i always set focus manually (crisper that way) but i need the autofocus for stuff like the panning and our outdoor run and gun shooting with the "Letters from Gabby" segments ...

i checked out that canon you posted last time i was at best buy... its a really cool unit... just wish it took other lenses... i have the rokinon 35mm and 14mm lenses and would hate for them to go to waste in my camera bag...

I would actually stick with the 60d but as im sure youve noticed... when using a monitor with it it drops resolution on the monitor feed when u hit play... which squashes the picture and virtually ruins the monitoring feature... ive read that the 7d is the only canon dslr that does not do this... but i hate to spend all that money on another dslr with (as you said) basically the same picture...

i dont know... i just sorta fell in love with the fs100... for my particular price range... its everything i want... i will continue studying up and take everything youve said into consideration.... this kind of stuff makes me a nervous wreck...lol... i thought i had finally decided on the perfect camera... sigh

cc

 

[crazy chris]

ps- yeah when my 60d overheated the screen went black and it wouldnt turn on until we turned it off and let it cool... the weirdest part is... it hadnt even been on for very long (i always shut it down for breaks and lighting changes)

I really wish i had a cinematographer to take care of everything for me... i feel a huge weight on my back at times trying to capture everything the way it should be... I guess if we ever hit the "big time" (giggles) i will hire someone with some talent

cc

 

[Buck-Beaver]

Auto-focus may not fix your problem with panning...and it might actually make it worse.

Auto focus is really problematic in general for video because even the best autofocus systems can be unpredictable. I can understand the appeal with your set up, but you are giving up a lot of control for the sake of convenience. There are other, better solutions.

Why not just shoot your pans on a tripod? Or, if you need some horizontal movement, ditch the jib for a slider? If the tripod isn't tall enough, you can just mount it on apple boxes (this is what's done on a lot of professional sets).

Also, re: focus your 14mm lens is roughly the equivalent of a 20mm on the 60D, you should be able to design your shots so that you have enough depth of field to accomplish most shots without having to pull focus. It's much cheaper to change your blocking than it is to buy a new camera!

The Canon G20 has really nice soft focus. I know it's not as fancy as a camera with removable lenses, but I think it's one of the best budget options for shooting puppets at 2k.

Honestly, it sounds like you're thinking of expensive solutions!

I've had to do a lot of shooting - both with and without puppets - in a lot of places over the past couple of years. Unless I am trying to do something very specific or very special, this is the entire kit I use. It enables you to get almost any kind of shot, anywhere:

• Canon DSLR running Magic Lantern
• Canon 24-70mm zoom lens
• Canon 50mm lens (the cheapo $100 "nifty fifty")
• Sigma 30mm lens (used, $250)
• A very old Nikon 50mm FD lens (with a Canon adapter this functions as a 100mm lens)
• Lowell DP Light w/ 500w & 750w bulbs (this is usually my key light).
• Umbrella reflector
• Lowell Pro Light w/ 250w bulb (I own several of these, but usually just carry one if I'm not in a studio).
• LED Ring Light (mostly for interviews & close-ups)
• Slider
• Disc reflector
• Rugged, but basic metal tripod.
• 1k Redhead or a Tota light with 750w or 1000w bulbs (only when I need a second light or an especially bright key).

Nothing on this list costs more than $300 except the camera and the zoom lens, which came as a bundle.

For studios shoots I do use two Kino-Flo Diva lights, just because I love them, but that's more personal preference than necessity. Apple boxes are used to raise the height of the camera.

The only drawbacks I find are that a couple LEDs would be nice for travel because they're lighter and cooler. I'd also love to own a Tokina 11-16 zoom lens for Ultra Wide shots, but that's those are the only thing I miss having.

I feel like we've hijacked this thread. Maybe we should start a puppet filmmaking discussion?

 

[crazy chris]

Your set up sounds sweet!!

I do have a konova slider that i like... but i really dont want all my stuff teetering up on boxes and and looking all makeshift.. especially since i allready own the jib and really dig the shots its given us so far... the issue isnt really the jib itself... its the height... and pulling focus... i may invest in a whip for the follow focus... have u ever used one? i also checked out some motorized follow focus' but hadnt fully decided on one yet...

I will admit i love new toys... so maybe i do seek out fun studio stuff that i probably could get/make cheaper...lolol... why not ..right?

i would definitely use the autofocus sparingly... i just want to be able to keep my subjects in focus as they walk or whatever... long enough to get to my still shot and re focus

the 14mm is much much slower than the 35... and at times i feel i have to light the room completely different to use it properly so its not really my work horse... plus with using puppets (keeping heads and arms out of shot) and having a limited set (cant go to high or low or expose the drop ceiling or unfinished set) with that wide angle its really tough to frame the shot.

I mainly use it for our cockpit wide shots... it has a very slight fish eye and gives off just the right vibe.

The more we talk the more im debating about just sticking with the 60d and maybe investing in a nice motorized follow focus... i just wish the issues of the resolution drop when monitoring and the overheating were cureable..

Does that little canon have any decent depth of field? im really keen to begin using some lens filters and pushing the boundaries of my rokinons amazing wide aperature...

im not super proud of the results i got on episode one footage... the backgrounds are all pretty focused... whereas i think i would prefer a deeper blur...

part of the fun of all this is learning new things and new techniques ... im still very new...but keen to learn!

thanks again for all your input!!

And YES! i think moving this to a seperate thread might be really helpful to future puppet filmakers who need info and tips!

cc