Muppet Mockumentary Pilot Filmed

[Bubbadog]

Ok, that was a bit snarky.

But three years since season one on DVD...

So much for being a zen master, LOL

 

[Ilikemuppets]

Can't wait till they rell us something.

 

[Bubbadog]

They say they're listening to the fans. But sometimes I wonder.
I don't have a problem with the recasting of the characters. In fact Bill Baretta playin rowlf, dr. teeth and so forth, I have to admit, it sounds mighty close...

But the announcement on obtaining rights to some of the stuff featured in the sketches... WOuldn't that have been something that was done originally when the shows were produced in the first place?

I mean really.

Mystery Science Theater cranks them out faster, you know?

I'm not bitter, really, just frustrated in the matter. I need my fix!

I need season two or something new.

Hey, I think I just came up with a chant for an angry mob!

Just kidding... But seriously, angry mob.

OHMMMMMMMMM....

 

[Bubbadog]

Did I mention I really like Bill Barettas work with the Muppets?

That man is definitely worthy of being a muppet performer.

In case anyone's wondering, I'm being slightly sarcastic about the angry mob stuff. I don't want anyone to think I'm trying to start something. I'm just venting my frustrations.

OHMMMMMMM...

 

[Ruahnna]

My Two Cents Worth

Geez, have I been asleep while this thread was going forward without me! There were several things that caught my eye and ear, and I wanted to comment on them.

Jim Henson didn't just operate like a Mom and Pop shop--he was Dad, the man who kept everything running, but with an eye to what was best for the family as well as what was best for the company. These are big shoes to fill, and several candidates have been mentioned. Let me offer my completely unsolicited comments on this topic.

As for Brian, I think is it patently obvious that, while Brian cares deeply about his father's work and its continuing success, he has already chosen his own path. And I don't think the sort of humor that Brian inevitably seems to descend to is the sort of humor that will best serve the muppets. That may sound snarky, and maybe it is, but it is truthful and frank. For years and years and years, the muppets have managed to get laughs and audiences without sexually explicit and bathroom humor, and most of the younger Mr. Henson's projects wouldn't have any subtance without those two staples. Is he talented? You betcha! He's a force to be reckoned with in a competitive business. Is he getting audiences? Of course! Low humor is now a staple of the business. Is his fresh, innovative, sexually suggestive and puerile humor what we want to see the muppets go to? Not really.... I'm not criticizing Mr. Henson for what he is doing--he is successful and accomplished and certainly doesn't need my approval or my attentive eye to be those things. But asking him to helm his father's work is a lot like the scene in the ill-conceived Muppet Wizard of Oz when Quentin Tarantino tries to help Kermit direct the muppet fight scene. Mr. Tarantino has his own vision, and it isn't the same as the muppets' vision. I think it is wise for us, as fans, to continue to support and applaud Brian Henson (at whatever level we choose) for the things that he is already doing. Congratulations to you, Sir, for your rousing success! But he is already doing what he loves, and that is part of his father's dream, too. We must leave him to it.

Jim Lewis was mentioned as someone to helm the company. Jim is a talented writer. He may well be the best muppet writer out there, but we don't have a lot to compare him to recently, do we? Who else has been allowed to publish books and articles with Disney's sanction? I found his "Look Before You Leap" book full of snappy one-liners and snarky comments--many of which were funny, but sacrificed the "canon" of the character of Kermit for a cheap laugh. And as someone who grew up with the muppets, I took exception at the way he played fast and loose with canon. It sortof of takes away from Kermit's magical journey to Hollywood to become rich and famous--doesn't it?--if his mother was really a talent agent. LB4YL also said that Kermit didn't get legs until he was an adolescent--when he clearly had them in KSY. Even if you forget KSY (which I would like to, sometimes), then it shows a lack of consistency--if anyone still cares about those things except li'l ol' me. And let me just say here--in case it is not painfully obvious--that I am a big believer in the original dream that Jim created. While I recognize that he is gone, and will not come this way again, I mentally can't help running everything new through the filter of his talent. When someone says something--especially in print and in a highly touted and heavily advertised book--that disagrees with Jim's point of view, then I tend to take exception. This is actually what canon law is--the framework of rules that govern how a body operates. If we can't even respect and (Heaven forbid!) bother to actually LOOK UP the things that have already been established, then how ungainly will we be going forward?

(If you know me on these boards, you knew I would get here eventually, but inevitably, so here I go!)
Although I know it has become the favorite pasttime of Kermit to take cheap, unkind and out-of-character shots at Miss Piggy at EVERY opportunity--even creating some when they don't exist!--that was NOT common when Jim was around. The sparring between Kermit and Piggy was heated and intense, but it wasn't just...mean. If you doubt me--look at the transcripts of their interviews back in the day. Or look at the episodes of TMS. Even when he is firing Piggy, his isn't calling her names and making pig jokes. A lot of what we see now is just that--mean, infantile and unkind, and there is a part of me that is very nervous about what sort of shape ANY new show will take if this trend continues to run. If they bring them back every week to snipe and snark at each other in a way that belies their genuine affection--the whole family-ness of the muppets--will I be sorry that they tried? Gosh, I sure hope not, but I'd be an idiot to not recognize that possibility. Would it be stupdendous to see Kermit welcoming us all to the show--any show!--and have him be the same charming, not-quite-sophisticated, patient-with-crazies and generous-with-stage-time-to-questionable-acts amphibian (who occasionally lapses into bouts of arm-waving hysteria) that he has always been? Be still my heart! But what if he's...smarmy, and mean. What if, like Disney's Dr. Doolittle, he thinks it's funnier if he swears a little? What if, like Disney's Life With Derek series, Kermit thinks it's okay to be unkind, unscrupulous and mean--as long as everyone else around you is sappy enough to forgive you all the time.

Let's think about this for a second--which of the muppets movies did the best? Ah, yes--the early ones--the ones that CENTERED AROUND THE ROMANCE BETWEEN THE FROG AND THE PIG. Now, let's look at how successful the muppets have been since SOMEBODY decided that wasn't important.... (sound of crickets chirping) Hmmmm. If I was guessing, I'd say that, whether or not you agree that there is an off-the-screen romance between the frog and the pig, you'd have to acknowledge that they sold more movies and had more success when the storylines were funny, zany and romantic. Doesn't every movie that's out have some sort of romantic twist? (Even if it's barely recognizable between the grunts and gropes.) If I were looking at this from a logical point of view, I guess I'd say, "Wow--the audience seems to like the sweet, funny, un-sarcastic and romantic stories best." If I were Disney, I guess I'd just chalk it up to one big amazing coincidence.

Well, I'm going to hush now. I've said more on this topic than I intended, and more than some will want to hear. I'm going to take my soapbox and stalk away with what's left of my dignity.

 

[muppet baby]

Hi ruahanna, you are so right about that the romances are the best i think disney should go back to that again .

 

[crazed gonzo fa]

Let's think about this for a second--which of the muppets movies did the best? Ah, yes--the early ones--the ones that CENTERED AROUND THE ROMANCE BETWEEN THE FROG AND THE PIG.

Good point, I never thought of that. Anyway, very well said Ruahnna!

 

[Bubbadog]

Well said Ruahnna, well said

However I do not see Kermit as being mean at all. Matter of fact, out of all the muppets, he is the only remaining character to have not tread down that path. I think he is still a very kind, sympathetic, and patient role model.

There was a joke in an episode of muppets tonight where they parodied NYPD Blue called NYPD Green where they were saying things like "filthy dirt bag" and "Slimy scuzzball" and producing the literal items they were referring to with the FCC telling them they can't say that on TV and Kermit ends the sketch with, "Why don't we just flip off the camera?"

That's probably the most edgy I have seen the green guy behave, you know?
The rest have been truly "edgier" over the last few years. (Examples: Animal drinking egg nog through a stereotypical party drinking device which I will not name for fear of being banned for doing so..., Gonzo and Pepe's "nip" incident in WoO) Though I'm not saying these are inappropriate (especially since this is better than most of the junk you'll see on TV these days, oh how I long for the much more innocent innuendo of Night Court compared to the gratuitous shocking elements you'd see on prime time TV now, but I digress).

And I agree, the romance with the pig and the frog...STAPLE! I've actually missed that lately. Piggy tricked Kermit into marrying her in MTM, I never heard they separated, but it seems that is what happened if you see their back and forth lately. I mean they played off of their union after that film.
BUT, I think VMMCM did a better job at capturing the spirit of the characters, and especially the romance between the two of them. You can see how much Kermit still cares for Piggy in that one.

The pig jokes aren't really something new. If you think about it, all of the pig jokes directed at Piggy through the years have been mean spirited...Including Kermits. Look at it like this, Piggy is trying to be this big starlet in a competitive world dominated by the mutli talented and "gorgeous" women of the world, and her colleagues are calling her a pig. That speaks volumes on prejudice (depending on how deep you want to analyze) in nearly every aspect of the word (Not to mention the singling out of Gonzo by calling him "weirdo", etc... Case in point). WHich I believe was one of the ways that Jim Henson wanted to use the Muppets, by showing the world their flaws, and letting them know there is a better way, but making it so we can laugh at it, you know? Laughing can cause changes, and open our eyes at the same time. And The beauty of the sense of humor Jim Henson presented was it's innocence and at its core, a powerful message. Whether one sees it or not, it's there.

Fraggle Rock, as Jerry Juhl says in "The World of Jim Henson" was Henson's attempt at using TV to bring peace to the world. But I also think the Muppet Show and the films that followed were also great examples of this, and thankfully this spirit has not been diminished or replaced (or at least not from what I have seen) save for a few of the elements we are familiar with, like the romance.

I think no matter how they present it (although KSY left me unsatisfied on some levels, save for the bloopers and as I'd mentioned before, Bill Baretta's perfomance... he's a riot) as long as they keep that certain innocence to it, they'll be golden.

But there needs to be something new. If we won't get the new show perhaps Disney should show us this ten minute pilot instead. At least we'd have something.

Bravo to you, Ruahnna. (shakes your hand)
ANd I think I should also thank you, your comments got my brain going this morning.
This coffee just wasn't doing it for me. LOL

 

[muppet baby]

Well said bubadog, i know when you are imatating someone like you said kermit did with Muppets tonight and doing NYPD Blue then you are bound to have a different atttude but it is just for fun .

That is what is fun of those typt of skits .

Kermit will always have a sweet wonderful no matter what .
I know all the muppets will , Piggy can be mean at times but that is how they made her charitor and i really like her always have .
I mean she punched poor gonzo a few times on the muppet show he he .

They are all great , i hope that muppts tonight will come on dvd sometime .

They are my faverite of all the muppet tv things next to the muppt show .

 

[muppet baby]

Well yes so true she said it all that is very true and i hope that the changes do come that really would be great i really wish the romance between kermit and piggy would grow they did a great job in MTM, then they had there chance and after that and did not act on it more .

What i mean is family life and such .