More education?

[RedPiggy]

Also in the school district I went to as a kid, the students in high school are now required to take four years of science and math because they're going to be tested on it with a standardized test and because everyone in the education field seems to be pushing the idea that this country needs more science and math students.

The state of the US in comparison to other countries is one of the primary reasons. Even two-bit countries in the middle of nowhere are beating us. Some 2nd world countries have better internet than us. China is continuing to develop, US jobs continue to be heavily outsourced ... all because if you understand the scientific method, Baby Jesus will cry, so the US has decided to trump up false piety to keep the population ignorant. It IS important to know more than how to write a basic paragraph. Our country is panicking because it finally hit them that no science/history/math equals no future. Still, it's funny that it takes an "oh crap" moment to figure that out. Take the 60s: did anyone really care about science and math until the Russians beat us to space? No, of course not. It seems the only time we stop being completely lazy is when another country is about two seconds away from winning Civilization, so to speak. We are only a superpower as long as we act like it. Resting on laurels is what Rome and Britain and just about every other empire did ... and they lost power, money, land, and people when they got complacent.

Okay but when it's all set and done, are the things the students learned going to help them find a job once they graduate high school?

I kinda like Europe's system: general education for the first few years, then start filtering people to stuff they like/can handle later. We repeat way too much general crap. If someone comes in mid-year and can't function on a specialized track, then they need to be bumped to a general one and let the others continue on with their day.

Do the high schools themselves even care if the former students can't even get a job even though they performed well on tests and worked hard in school?

Heheheh ... you think that's bad? You PAY for college ... and after the check clears, they could care less about you. I even see colleges put little disclaimers on their commercials about how degrees/certifications don't guarantee jobs ... I guess too many people flamed them for acting like it was a sure thing. And, quite frankly, I still think some sort of clinical/apprenticeship is better anyway. You can always tell the RNs who "worked their way up" (by being CNAs, etc) versus who just waltzed into school and graduated. The former are helpful, understand the limitations of their jobs, and value teamwork. I've noticed the Nursing School Only types are almost obscenely arrogant, thinking their job is to not get out of their chairs and merely delegate jobs to the poor slobs who work under them, etc. What it takes to pass the test is not always what it takes to be effective in your job. Cutthroat ambition is nice only if you're assured a chance to be at the top when you leave. If you're still gonna have to work your way up, well, good luck with being a jerk. There are lots of PhD's who are jobless because it never occurs to them to "settle" for something beneath them. I've gone to jobs saying I'm perfectly happy picking up Kleenexes off the floor all day if I have to. While I didn't get those jobs, I suspect I'm getting more hours because the hospitals are asking why they'd risk losing someone like that.

If they absolutely NEED standardized tests, they should be smaller things accomplished in a small school period.

I'd still much rather see concrete projects that prove you know what you're talking about. Building model roller coasters, doing a "CSI"-type thing, designing a web site, etc ... these, in my mind, actually PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that you learned it, not the "eeney-meenie-miney-moe" of standardized testing. Need motivation besides just doing something cool? Go reality TV style and have classes compete for major projects.

 

[Drtooth]

I've noticed the Nursing School Only types are almost obscenely arrogant, thinking their job is to not get out of their chairs and merely delegate jobs to the poor slobs who work under them, etc. What it takes to pass the test is not always what it takes to be effective in your job. Cutthroat ambition is nice only if you're assured a chance to be at the top when you leave. If you're still gonna have to work your way up, well, good luck with being a jerk. There are lots of PhD's who are jobless because it never occurs to them to "settle" for something beneath them. I've gone to jobs saying I'm perfectly happy picking up Kleenexes off the floor all day if I have to. While I didn't get those jobs, I suspect I'm getting more hours because the hospitals are asking why they'd risk losing someone like that.

But then again, there also lies that problem. A lot of people who work their way up get stuck at stuff that's either beneath them or completely out of their field that a high school drop out could do. Sometimes forever. There is no worse feeling in the world than seeing dreams die, so a lot of people would rather obstinately suffer than to wind up having to feed the beast that killed them. And the worst part is sometimes said lower jobs have fierce competition, and it inevitably goes to people withOUT education for various reasons.

What REALLY gets me is that we have to lie to children about this. No! No little Suzy, you can be anything you want when you grow up. Little Suzy goes to college and studies stuff only to live with her parents the rest of her natural life. She can't even flip burgers for a living because she's over qualified. Plus, those burger flipping jobs need to go to high school dropouts, inexplicably rewarding them for quitting. And those are the only jobs even out there.

Oh sure, we can always say "Oooh! Them Illegals took errr jerrrbs" (South park reference). That's our politico's saying, ignore the fact our party doners GIVE jobs to them, and we make sure they have no rights so they can charge whatever they want. Face it. Our futures are in the hands of greedy idiots who would lovingly have that silly commie Constitutional amendment against slavery removed and the people who they'd pay to make sure we'd all agree with it. Sure, I get that somethings need to be manufactured overseas... but what on EARTH is up with giving tech support and catalog call center jobs to India? That's underhanded.

If this country EVER wants jobs again, we need to punish the big corporations until they bring them back. Then we can have a lot more menial pitstop jobs to help people on their feet. They sold our futures out for a tiny bit of tax loophole money. And they don't even put that savings back in the pockets in the consumers. And they wonder why the Recession is never going to end. We were never NOT in it.

 

[Nick22]

i saw the name of this thread and almost exploded. if there's more school, i will die. i am in 8th grade, and my grades are very good (i think). i swear, the kids at my school cannot handle anymore time in school. maybe it's just my school in particular, but kids are constantly stressed because of the amount of work that we are expected to do. when i was in like 3rd or 4th grade, i used to have breakdowns because of how much homework i had and how much stuff i hadda do. my grades were still good, but my parents put me into THERAPY! i was 9 years old, seeing a therapist once a week. thanks to my dumb *** school. my school is STILL bad. they force us to read books we don't wanna read and then take tests on them afterwards, i am constantly needing to write essays, and i have at least 2 hours of homework each night. i think this might just be my school, considering i go to catholic school. but still. we're kids. and we don't even get recess. ever. never. hahaha. it's sad. it rully is.

 

[RedPiggy]

I think if school was more efficient, then you could probably shave off a couple of years. Of course, the "school as babysitter" problem would have to be addressed, but that's where I think apprenticeships would fit in nicely. I see no problem whatsoever in letting minors do unlicensed work for a couple of hours.

edit: And you would've liked me as a teacher ... I rarely gave homework because the parents couldn't help them with the basics anyway, so if I just left time at the end of the day to work with them myself, at least I could assure it got done.

 

[Drtooth]

I think if school was more efficient, then you could probably shave off a couple of years. Of course, the "school as babysitter" problem would have to be addressed, but that's where I think apprenticeships would fit in nicely. I see no problem whatsoever in letting minors do unlicensed work for a couple of hours.

edit: And you would've liked me as a teacher ... I rarely gave homework because the parents couldn't help them with the basics anyway, so if I just left time at the end of the day to work with them myself, at least I could assure it got done.

I like your attitude towards homework. Really, I find studying to make sure you remember stuff, and practicing fundamentals, and working on larger projects (there's nothing wrong with independent study now and then) . But taking home every single textbook to basically cover what the babysitter...err... teacher didn't bother covering and pointless busy work doesn't help anything out at all.

Of course there's stress. We're putting too much of a burden on these kids, and then taking away whatever rewards we have now. I'm glad that I was able to grow up having cartoons every afternoon to look forward to after work. Now there's nothing. No candy, no time to go out and play... everything's terrible now, and they wonder why kids are so unhappy and out of shape. And no future rewards neither... High school graduates now have to compete in blood sport to get a get on your feet type of deal to work their way through college, and even then college graduates have to go to Hades and back and wrestle the devil himself to even get a crummy off career job.

 

[Gelfling Girl]

The way I see it, there should be a way to better help some of those students who just can't catch on to certain concepts in those subjects, but it just seems like too much to extend the time spent in school.

One of the best ideas I've ever heard regarding education was from one of our own teachers: Take the state test either once or twice depending on scoring, in a similar way of how some teachers handle pre-tests. If a student passes the test at the beginning of the school year, they would get to study different things while the students who didn't pass would review what they need help on.

And let's face it, we're all exhausted. If school time would be extended, I'd rather it be an extra half-hour/hour or so at the end of the day where we could just study, do homework, etc. without having to worry about more work.

...And that's coming from a self proclaimed nerd...

 

[Nick22]

The way I see it, there should be a way to better help some of those students who just can't catch on to certain concepts in those subjects, but it just seems like too much to extend the time spent in school.

One of the best ideas I've ever heard regarding education was from one of our own teachers: Take the state test either once or twice depending on scoring, in a similar way of how some teachers handle pre-tests. If a student passes the test at the beginning of the school year, they would get to study different things while the students who didn't pass would review what they need help on.

And let's face it, we're all exhausted. If school time would be extended, I'd rather it be an extra half-hour/hour or so at the end of the day where we could just study, do homework, etc. without having to worry about more work.

...And that's coming from a self proclaimed nerd...

i swear, if there was more school time, my brain would explode. too much stuff to learn in one day. it's difficult enough already

 

[ryhoyarbie]

I think that's one of the problems that is going through school today. There's a load amount of learning and it's pressuring students to do their best even though once they graduate high school the school district they went to could care less what happens to them once they leave. You can have students study as much science and math and whatever else but the bottom line is once they leave high school and get out of that safety net, the schools they went to could care less about them and don't care if the information they learned in school has any relevace or not. That's one of the problems I have with high school.

I didn't learn anything in high school that could help me get a job. I learned a bunch of crap that employers don't care about, that's about all I learned. I already told my cousin who's in 11th grade that the stuff they're learning right now in school isn't going to help them. So you studied Shakespeare and learned how to do a quadratic equation. Good for you! But guess what....jobs could care less about that stuff because your employer only cares if you can do a job correctly and more importantly, make more money for them.

So go ahead and tell the country students need more science and math because we're falling behind other countries in those respective fields of study instead of telling students and people in general what they really need, which is more jobs. You can have all the science and math wizzes out there, but if there aren't any jobs for those people, then their education becomes irrelevant.

 

[RedPiggy]

I think it'd help if there were a class devoted to how to create, obtain, and maintain jobs.

 

[ryhoyarbie]

I think it'd help if there were a class devoted to how to create, obtain, and maintain jobs.

European countries already do that. The United States doesn't and are more concerned about standardized scores, trying to cram as much science and math into students minds, and telling them to go to college.