Is it time for Kermit to retire?

[Kimp the Shrimp]

I Guess I'm The Anti-thread Killa

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Hey, I never knocked Steve, in fact I said he was a tremendous performer, you've misunderstood.

I wasn't directing that at you, sorry. I was merely stating. Come to think of it, I just skipped a couple of posts and posted a response.
=======================
Now, in another thread the discussion is about how newer characters can be more popular than the old ones. Simpsons vs. Life in He11 by Matt Groening: You have to keep in mind that he created Simpsons as something new, but not to replace his comic strip characters. He created a whole new franchise. The same way Beavis and Butthead did not succumb to King of the Hill, they were dropped in hopes of the new production their creator wanted to take. King of the Hill, btw, is better because it plays off so many different angles, with Beavis and Butthead all you had were two kids doing the same thing over and over again...and laughing about it. There was no personality.

That same function cannot apply to the Muppets because Kermit and the TMS Gang are the reason it all got started, you take them out of the picture and you will fail the success of anything. As far as other franchises, The Muppets existed while there was Sesame Street, and Fraggle Rock.

Muppets Wizard of Oz was in the top ten when it was shown on TV that night, and it wasn't even in it's full version (remember, 20 minutes are being added back into the movie for the DVD release). On a weekend which is the opening of Star Wars Episode III you have to admit that's a pretty big deal to be in the top ten!!

It's what I said earlier: It's in the writing and direction nowadays where the vision is lost. It's not in the performance. It's not the fault of the new voices. It's in that the company who lost sight of what they once were, and trying to put a new twist on things to make it more modern (which isn't the problem) as they see the characters should be (which is the problem).

A script should be character driven. The personalities of these characters are already in place, and writing a script should be easy enough because you are not creating new characters and personalities; you let the existing characters drive your story in the direction it should go. That's why the RPGs we do here are usually successful! We, as fans, stay true to the integrity of the characters we portray, and those characters drive our stories. The writers of today need to do the same thing and let the characters take the story where it needs to go. This was also how Charles Schulz produced his comic strips for 50 years--sketching them in different poses until they 'told' him what to do in the comic strip.

I will disagree 100% forever that there should be new characters to replace Kermit and Fozzie and Piggy et al. I mean, we see what happened with the Loonatics replacing the Looney Tunes characters, didn't we? It'll flop! The only reviews I've seen for it are complaints. Labyrinth and Dark Crystal were not originally popular for 2 reasons: 1) They were too far ahead of their time and 2) No Muppets!! Coming from the same creator, that says a lot about the characters which have been suggested need to be retired.

 

[MrsPepper]

Wow, Fozzie Bear, I've read a few of your posts like this today, and I agree with you. You certainly know what you are talking about, as well.

 

[Kimp the Shrimp]

Now, in another thread the discussion is about how newer characters can be more popular than the old ones. Simpsons vs. Life in He11 by Matt Groening: You have to keep in mind that he created Simpsons as something new, but not to replace his comic strip characters. He created a whole new franchise. The same way Beavis and Butthead did not succumb to King of the Hill, they were dropped in hopes of the new production their creator wanted to take. King of the Hill, btw, is better because it plays off so many different angles, with Beavis and Butthead all you had were two kids doing the same thing over and over again...and laughing about it. There was no personality.

i meant it as i don't want to see the old MUPPETS DRUGGED DOWN by the subpar stuff thats out lets feature the NEWER muppets and if it fails it won't tarnish the old ones

 

[Kimp the Shrimp]

I mean, we see what happened with the Loonatics replacing the Looney Tunes characters, didn't we? It'll flop!

It has not come out yet

I will disagree 100% forever that there should be new characters to replace Kermit and Fozzie and Piggy et al.

i never wanted to replace them just not hurt them with testing of new concepts



I Got Love 4 you Fozzie you are really smart on this i never meant this as a knock
it's just what Jim was doing with the "Jim Henson Hour" and other Projects B4 he died
he never wanted to just lay back on the laurals of TMS He wanted to push the boundrys of the "Muppets"

 

[MrsPepper]

Good Point there, Kimp. He was always trying new things. And, the way you see it, you don't want these new things to flop and hurt our beloved classic Muppets, since this is a crucial time in their future. Makes alot of sense, that does.

 

[Kimp the Shrimp]

Good Point there, Kimp. He was always trying new things. And, the way you see it, you don't want these new things to flop and hurt our beloved classic Muppets, since this is a crucial time in their future. Makes alot of sense, that does.

thank you tahts all i was trying to say

 

[Beauregard]

Kimp, I finally got what you are saying. You sare saying, if you don't mind me paraphrasing: You don't want Kermit in the new productions, becuase Kermit is so Kermit that you don't want him to join the dumbing down, and the colapse (should there be one) of the new Muppet Show?


And, Fozzie, you too are right about the Character driving the story. With my Fan-Fics, I let them go, and don't reign them in, and then the story emerges. Jut one page ago I saw clearly how the whole story end will pan out filling the whole story out, and ansering the clues that I (without noticing) spread out earlier. Becuase that's what charcters do. They go their own way.

 

[TogetherAgain]

You know Kimp, you do have a point in that last post there. It says in The Works that Jim was always getting restless with his projects. He was constantly trying new things, different things, experimenting, playing, seeing how far he could go.

But Fozzie has a point too about knowing the characters and letting them tell the story. In my fanfic, I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted to happen. But it was really all the characters. They came in and added so much to the story. It was their goals that they were going after. They did all the talking, and I just put pen to paper and let them lead the way. That's why I struggled at times, actually, because I felt like I didn't know some of the characters quite well enough.

I think that's all we need, now, is writers and directers who can feel the characters inside of them, can hear the characters talking, see them moving, think their thoughts, and really just put themselves in the characters and see what they do.

I just contradicted myself, didn't I? I said the characters need to be in the writers, and then I said the writers need to be in the characters. But actually, I think both are necessary. It may sound strange, but if you look hard enough you might see the tiny piece of logic in what I'm trying to say.

 

[Kimp the Shrimp]

Thank you all